Any news from Cosford…?

Its very hard for East Fortune to just dump stuff. If the Vanguard mock up is not signficant they could make a case to remove it from the collection. However if this was to happen other museums would be offered it first with throwing it in a skip the last option. East Fortune should be prasied for at least saving two of the airframes. It is a real shame they could not take the Trident as well. It is not possible to keep everything and BA had to prevent it becoming a long drawn out saga. Give it a year or so and very few people will remember the BA collection at Cosford.

Thats good, no doubt it time we will see things like the Spitfire wings etc dragged out of the sea re-appear on display at East Fortune. Radar enthusiasts will also be pleased that the rare Type 14 that was reported as scrapped in 2003 has also been saved. The APSS wil be pleased that “their” aircraft the Auster and Miles Monarch will be going back on display. Not to mention the “dumping” of stocks of paint that could have been used!

Badger617,
Thanks for the news re the Balliol.
James

Unless they look at the BOAC schemed Comet ,Britannia ,BEA schemed Dragonfly or the CASA JU-52 in British Airways colours!

Its very hard for East Fortune to just dump stuff. If the Vanguard mock up is not signficant they could make a case to remove it from the collection. However if this was to happen other museums would be offered it first with throwing it in a skip the last option. East Fortune should be prasied for at least saving two of the airframes. It is a real shame they could not take the Trident as well. It is not possible to keep everything and BA had to prevent it becoming a long drawn out saga. Give it a year or so and very few people will remember the BA collection at Cosford.

OK so the front fuselage of the 707 will (hopefully) be on display at East Fortune. But a front fuselage is not really the significant part of a 707, it could easily just be a 737 and there are lots of these about. No doubt there will be a model showing the full aircraft with 4 under wing engines but that really does not convey the whole thing. The Trident cockpit again will not show the 3 engine layout. The Museum of Flight has had a Vanguard mock up on display for many years, this shows an airliner cockpit, or at least as real as the masses want to see one. Unless you are an enthusiast one cockpit is the same an another. I wonder if the Vanguard mock up will still go on display or if it will just dissapear into the scrap dump!!

Derek Want, British Airways Director of Ground Operations and Chairman of the BA Heritage Steering Group (yes, there really is such a thing!) replied to three complaints in the BA News last week:
“The reasons behind the need to move the aircraft away from the RAF Museum at Cosford are complex. However, I can assure you that the outcome we have reached is much better than the position we were in a few months ago……We have been able to find new homes for all five aircraft (sic!) so that they can be enjoyed by generations, both new and old, of aviation enthusiasts” !!!

So you can see the problem. How do you negotiate with someone who can see the pictures of theTrident and 707 being broken up and still continue to assert that the aircraft have been found new homes?

Brooklands is said to be still negotiating for the VC10 but whether with BA or ASI I don’t know. It seems incredible that a first class aviation museum should be frustrated in its wish to acquire more parts of a heritage aircraft that no-one wants and is scheduled to be broken up.
Reading Derek Want’s literally unbelievable latest statement and looking at the “Doctor’s” track record of scrapping historic aircraft you have to wonder whether we can ever restore British aircraft preservation generally, and BA and the RAFM in particular, to sanity.

Regarding the F111 I understand it was a gift to the RAFM. Roger not sure where you got your information about BA giving RAFM £20k never heard that one before or is it just a rumour as I am a regular visitor and have some long conversations with the staff.
James the Balliol is still there it is on display in Hangar 3.

[QUOTE=Phillip Rhodes] ….BA are not short of a few quid…… [QUOTE]

As I understand it BA had offered funds to museums prepared to take their aircraft on. I’m sure the figure of £20K (total) was mentioned but have no idea of the conditions.
It would be interesting to see a financial breakdown of this whole sorry affair.

Roger Smith.

Rob68 posted an interesting photo of an F111 at Cosford. Is this exhibit going to the ‘Cold War’ Dept or will it be displayed as ‘Another faux pas and waste of the British Taxpayers Money’ ? Are the American cousins paying for its upkeep?
I see the museum administrators have cash for foreign aircraft which didn’t make it into R.A.F. service, but not for the VC10 and other fine British designs which they were only too glad to take on show when it suited.
My connection with Cosford? I took a team and assembled the last Balliol there, they were producd nearby in Wolverhampton, (for the odd bod who didn’t know that). This was over 20 years ago and I thought they had a good collection, especially the range of experimental aircraft. Unfortunately, I have never been back as I left England, and am sorry to read these tales of destruction. On another site, I have offered to house the VC10 engines, if they can be brought over to Belgium. (Would like to take whole machine but the garden shed isn’ quite big enough).
Would the English allow such treasures out of the island? It would let foreigners see what British design was capable of 50 years ago – Airbus wings alone are not enough.
Even at this late stage, I hope something can be done to save some of the aircraft not just to show our children, but we old critters still like to look at them and remember days when airlines (and now museums it appears) were run by aviation people and not banks.
Crawls back under oilcans – moan over.

Have a look at the other Cosford link thats going, its got pics on. last dated 30th April

Interestingly there have been Tridents scrapped at various airports in the U.K over the last ten years -numerous BAC 1-11’s and 707’s have met there ends also. Airliner preservation is a very difficult thing to do in the long term.

Don’t mention that to DAS, otherwise they might want to throw in the towel 😀

There on Sunday… nose is off the Trident but told (uncorroberated)that whole airframe going to East Fortune

How I wish that were true, but I very much doubt it. The cockpit appears to have been cut away very precisely, ready for mounting up for display as a cockpit only. There’s also the ‘small’ matter of the whacking great hole that’s been cut into the side of the fuselage, which has been done to make it easier to rip out the interior, aswell as permanantly undermining the fuselage’s structural integrity.

Interestingly there have been Tridents scrapped at various airports in the U.K over the last ten years -numerous BAC 1-11’s and 707’s have met there ends also. Airliner preservation is a very difficult thing to do in the long term.

There on Sunday… nose is off the Trident but told (uncorroberated)that whole airframe going to East Fortune

Phillip, I know what you mean.Someone I know has just had a multipule thousand pound grant to have his cottage roof re-thatched, in a village of thatched roofs.

Also a local ‘eyesore’ pub near me built in the 70’s, and renowned for trouble has been given ‘listed’ status.It seems loads of ‘airy fairy’ and quite clearly crap objects of our ‘heritage’, get unlimited sums thrown at them, why not aviation too.Come on, it’s changed the whole world, made it affordable to travel to millions, alot more important than a layer of straw to keep the rain out and to give something for the American’s to photograph in the Cotswolds!! 😡

Sorry folks, rant over………………..phew that’s better 😀

Cheers

Kev 🙂 (very drunk and now stewing over heritage issues)

There’s a picture of ZD230 in semi-scrapped state on airliners.net. Pic was taken a month ago, so she may well have been completely scrapped by now.

http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=1039116&WxsIERv=IP10%20X4&Wm=0&WdsYXMg=HX%20-%20Nve%20Sbepr&QtODMg=Fg.%20Nguna%20%28RTQK%29&ERDLTkt=HX%20-%20Jnyrf&ktODMp=Ncevy%206%2C%202006&BP=1&WNEb25u=Zvpunry%20Fgrjneg%20Oenmvre&xsIERvdWdsY=MQ230&MgTUQtODMgKE=Bar%20bs%20n%20gevb%20bs%20pnaavovyvfrq%20pnepnffrf%20bs%20ENS%20IP10f%2C%20ergverq%20jvguva%20jrrxf%20bs%20rnpu%20bgure%20ng%20gur%20raq%20bs%202005%2C%20frra%20ng%20Rnfg%20Fvgr%2C%20ENS%20Fg%20Nguna%2C%20va%20Ncevy%202006.%20MQ230%20jnf%20gur%20cebgbglcr%20Fhcre%20IP-10%20naq%20svefg%20syrj%20va%201964%20nf%20T-NFTN%20sbe%20OBNP.%20Vgf%20ynfg%20syvtug%20jnf%20sebz%20Snvesbeq%20gb%20Fg%20Nguna%20ba%2016%20Qrp%2005.&YXMgTUQtODMgKERD=616&NEb25uZWxs=2006-05-02%2002%3A31%3A22&ODJ9dvCE=X&O89Dcjdg=851&static=yes&width=1024&height=709&sok=JURER%20%20%28cynpr%20%3D%20%27Fg.%20Nguna%20%28RTQK%29%27%29%20%20BEQRE%20OL%20cubgb_vq%20QRFP&photo_nr=1&prev_id=&next_id=1039115&size=L

Interestingley the prototype VC10 Super ZD230 was scrapped at St Athan very recently.
Had the RAF Museum wanted to retain a VC10 that would have been the most likely candidate.
Equally I am sure an approach to Lockheed for a surplus C-130 for preservation rather than scrapping in the states might have produced a positive response.

Phillip
It’s not too late to get active with VM. Weybridge is the home of the VC10. Rumour has it they need some major parts for their Standard, in addition to the cockpit. Some think they could be persuaded to take the whole aircraft with a view to keeping one VC10 going long term.
It needs pressure – now.

I feel physically sick. I’ve just seen the images from Cosford. I thought the national broadsheets would have covered the story, but no. What really, really gets me is that we’ve all been here before. I don’t see other sectors of our preserved heritage doing the same. Why do we have to take it on board that we are different? Yes, these aircraft are or rather were large, but most collections have large artefacts in their possession. And please don’t get me started on the cost of moving these airframes or preserving them onsite. BA are not short of a few quid.

I don’t know what to say or do without sounding like a complete fool or off my rocker. And nobody in the national media reported on what happened. What do we have to do to make people listen? Break a few legs? Dress up as Batman and climb Buckingham Palace? Or do we just act like the dumb animals we have become – not wanting to upset the establishment and those who report on what goes on. I’m still not happy with Flypast and Aeroplane Monthly’s inability to do more than sit on the fence. If a national tabloid can bring down a government or sway the electorate, then why can’t Ellis and Oakey do more than be stoolpigeons to those in power.

Too late for most of them already mate, the Trident has got the chop already and the 707 was being rapidly reduced aswell,if it hasn’t been already. See the link…

http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=56892&highlight=Cosford