Any RAF Halton Brats on here ?

Sgt. Edward Ernest Tyler was in the 40th Entry No.1 School of Technical training. He joined August 1939. Sgt. Tyler was the Flight Engineer on board Lancaster Mk.I W4367 that crashed 25-06-1943 in the IJsselmeer near Harderwijk, the Netherlands.

I can only find the 40th Entry Air Fleet photo. Can someone help me.

Jeremy Chapman

Hello Dave,
Logged in this afternoon and I was surprised,but very pleased to see this thread still running. Now that is interesting about about Jeremy Chapman. You’ve rung a bell somewhere down in my sub conciousness, so after a couple of brew ups and a long think ,(everything takes longer these days-lol 😀 ) The name does seem familiar,and there was another small,very young looking Apprentice in 88th who virtually joined up with me and was in the same ITF Flight for those 1st 4 months, who I’m 80% sure was known as Chapman and the more I think about it ,it has to be him. He was a year younger than rest of us, had a sqeaky voice, and a good laugh that got him noticed.( so the others were always taking the mickey out of that,) but he was a happy young chap, we got on well. None of the bad side of Halton Apprentice life I’ve described previously ever seemed to get him down either. I think we called him Jerry, and as he was 4 numbers behind me (In our Service Numbers ) thats how we queue’d up to receive them on initial signing on. Pretty sure also that he was an Engine Fitter,and also quite certain he passed out to J/T std. before being posted away. (I have no idea what happened to him then, never seen or heard anything.) I never got a copy of the Halton Magazine that covered our 88th Entry Graduation, but you can bet our names will be in there. I have a typical Entry Flt. RAF picture taken in 1958 that I can pick him out on,that I’ll scan in and send to you. Of course we have our big SD Hats on, but somewhere, I have another one with hats off ,so will look for these. I’ve no individual pics. of Jerry though.

So all a long time ago now, not much help really,the clincher being his Service Number, last Number 4 behind mine. if you do find out more about him and what /where he is today, please let me know,it would be great to pass him the usuall “Brat” greetings.;):D

Yes Dave, Wyton ,late1962, I was in ASF Servicing 58 Squadron Canberra’s. T ?’s and PR 9’s If I remember correctly.

Bill T.

Bill T – Did you ever find photo of Jeremy Chapman or any other info? [email]david.lloyd84@ntlworld.com[/email]

RONALD SPILSBURY FINNEY

thanks Ian, have already visited that website, was actually looking for someone who might have known my uncle personally.

This link has a lot of information on it re Sgt Finney:

http://www.rafcommands.com/forum/showthread.php?8537-4226-Servicing-Echelon

RONALD SPILSBURY FINNEY

does anyone out there remember my uncle Ronald Spilsbury Finney. I have visited his grave in Lille cemetery but do not know what actually happened to him. I was born in 1941 so do not remember Uncle Ron, but I hope that someone might remember him and be able to tell me something about him. Our Grandmother always told us that he was a rear gunner with the Lancaster’s but and was injured in a raid but that appears not to be true. I have recently discovered that he was injured in a road accident and later died in hospital. Forgive you Grandmother, that was your way of remembering him. xxx

Dad was 39 entry: he pulled my leg by considering that I had failed him as a son by going to “Sleaford Tech”,
As he did WW2, including Malta, and then helped bring the Shack in to Coastal- He had a point.
He did teach me to reject Bullsh*t, and for that I am eternally grateful.
I am very proud to be the son of a Brat

Jeremy Chapman.

Hi Bill,
I guess that you are my only link to Jeremy Chapman, but it is a long shot and a long time ago – any pointers welcomed. I too was at Wyton – ARSF, ASF and 58 Squadron – thence to RAF Seletar on Bevs, RAF Gan and Thorney Island before my Fitters Course. It seems that life as an Apprentice was a bit tough compared with Boy Entrant – my entry actually stopped “bull boys” – 32nd tried to reintroduce it but got short shrift from us – one massive bed tipping attack saw to that!

Hello Dave,
Logged in this afternoon and I was surprised,but very pleased to see this thread still running. Now that is interesting about about Jeremy Chapman. You’ve rung a bell somewhere down in my sub conciousness, so after a couple of brew ups and a long think ,(everything takes longer these days-lol 😀 ) The name does seem familiar,and there was another small,very young looking Apprentice in 88th who virtually joined up with me and was in the same ITF Flight for those 1st 4 months, who I’m 80% sure was known as Chapman and the more I think about it ,it has to be him. He was a year younger than rest of us, had a sqeaky voice, and a good laugh that got him noticed.( so the others were always taking the mickey out of that,) but he was a happy young chap, we got on well. None of the bad side of Halton Apprentice life I’ve described previously ever seemed to get him down either. I think we called him Jerry, and as he was 4 numbers behind me (In our Service Numbers ) thats how we queue’d up to receive them on initial signing on. Pretty sure also that he was an Engine Fitter,and also quite certain he passed out to J/T std. before being posted away. (I have no idea what happened to him then, never seen or heard anything.) I never got a copy of the Halton Magazine that covered our 88th Entry Graduation, but you can bet our names will be in there. I have a typical Entry Flt. RAF picture taken in 1958 that I can pick him out on,that I’ll scan in and send to you. Of course we have our big SD Hats on, but somewhere, I have another one with hats off ,so will look for these. I’ve no individual pics. of Jerry though.

So all a long time ago now, not much help really,the clincher being his Service Number, last Number 4 behind mine. if you do find out more about him and what /where he is today, please let me know,it would be great to pass him the usuall “Brat” greetings.;):D

Yes Dave, Wyton ,late1962, I was in ASF Servicing 58 Squadron Canberra’s. T ?’s and PR 9’s If I remember correctly.

Bill T.

97th/98th

686945 AA Shaw FR Airframe Fitter

http://97th.org.uk/

I am trying to trace 684011 Jeremy Chapman from Bingley, West Yorks. Nothing found on 88th Entry website.
He left RAF in 1967 – other than that I have nothing – not even his trade.

from: [email]david.lloyd84@ntlworld.com[/email]

Hi Bill,
I guess that you are my only link to Jeremy Chapman, but it is a long shot and a long time ago – any pointers welcomed. I too was at Wyton – ARSF, ASF and 58 Squadron – thence to RAF Seletar on Bevs, RAF Gan and Thorney Island before my Fitters Course. It seems that life as an Apprentice was a bit tough compared with Boy Entrant – my entry actually stopped “bull boys” – 32nd tried to reintroduce it but got short shrift from us – one massive bed tipping attack saw to that!

Jeremy Chapman

I am trying to trace 684011 Jeremy Chapman from Bingley, West Yorks. Nothing found on 88th Entry website.
He left RAF in 1967 – other than that I have nothing – not even his trade.

from: [email]david.lloyd84@ntlworld.com[/email]

Hi bazv,
Ex Aircraft Apprentice ( RAF Halton 88th Entry ) 684007 reporting in. lol!! Served my apprenticeship there between Jan. 58 to Dec. 60. Great place, very proud of it. Got some pics. to post if I can find em.
Memories:_

Marching to and from Workshops and schools every Weekday (twice ) Playing in Pipe band at weekends practice and watching other lads doing Drill P.T,etc on Sat. mornings—-Big Snowball fight with rest of 2 Wing( Senior Entry 80th ) in that first winter, as they picked on us lads in 88th. I got a small 80th. New Zealand Flt. Sgt. right on the forehead with a hard packed snowball, 6 of em chased me for a mile and gave me a good belting.

Lining up for a head scalp by “Plug” the despised civvie barber, everyone mouthing talk (No sound ) Plug turns his hearing aid up and the roof came off with a combined shout that blew him away-lol. ( We were being scalped anyway, so what the heck. )

Cpl Drill Instructors waiting to check our mugs and irons after we leave mess and delighting in throwing the ones they didn’t like up in air to land on parade ground.

Most of the Entry going down with a Virus and forced to stay in bed for a week in the lower Blocks. The 83rd’s “National sock day” All our socks were pinched one night and hung all over the Camp ( Living Area )

That 1st year we were in 20 man rooms in the H blocks that were Senior Entry dominated, we led a grovelling life–picked on–cold baths if you even looked sideways at Senior Entry, (and had your back scrubbed with bass brooms and scouring powder ) Lippy junior entry in same rooms would be shoved in wood lockers and pushed out of window and don’t even think about going to the NAFFI, the rest of Senior Entry were always in there waiting for new Apprentices,who had shopping lists for the idle senior entry, ( On pain of being beaten up or bed tipped–or Bulled boots toe caps bashed in or locker contents thrown out onto parade ground.

After 4 months of that, the 89TH. Entry arrived and they then took the brunt of this, we were OK after that. After the first year, the RAF decided this system wasn’t so good, so changed everything around to Entries of same periods in Wings, we moved to 2 Wing and life was great from then on.

I was enjoying getting down to the airfield on weekends, always deserted then, I could wander around the piled up Aircraft being scrapped 3 Mosquitoes—Loads of Swifts — Meteors — A Brigand —Spitfire–and of course the Beaufighter Engine Ground Running Rig/ Classroom.

Good friends—parades and practices galore ( got really fed up of them ) Separate Collars that attached with them awful collar studs. Coarse battledress “hairy ” blues. Long “Shreddies” or “Draws Cellular Airmen for the Use Of.” But it all passed and 3 yrs. after arriving, we were all posted away, me as a Junior Technician ( Complete with one upside down stripe ) to RAF Wyton Tyre and Hydraulic Bays, servicing Valiant / Canberra and Victor gear.

Looking at your pic. of this Naval intake of 39, that looks like the famous Halton “Pimple”,that is the bald bit on the hill behind. I think this pic. was taken in the greenery behind 2 Wing H Blocks, (because they would have been there then.)

We had Apprentices sent from all different Countries in our Entry, as did every other Entry, so a Naval Intake definately would be the norm in 1939 as we were building up for WW2 as fast as we could.

basv,—— have a great reunion on the Weekend, can’t imagine what Halton and parade ground and workshops must look like now, and is “Main Point” still there ? I’ll be with you in spirit, (Spitfire Ales -lol ) and if you can get any pics. of these areas,and “Action”– please post them back here.

“Rooks”—“Snags”– Mousey Swinbourne ( 85th ) playing his banjo on bus on away Pipe Band Engagements. Lord Mayors procession ( London ) and Earls Court Services Tournament, played twice as a Sidedrummer. All over 50 years ago now, wow !! where did all that time go to.

Bill Turnbull

Yes I am an Ex Brat

I was in the 103rd entry(Jan1963 – December 1965) at Halton in the last Inst Fitter General class. Our trade was obsolute before we graduated!!! Another winner. I later retrained as an A Fitt E and left the Royal Air Force in March 1986.

We of the 103rd have an active Entry Association and have social meetings from time to time. Have a look on www.103rd-entry.org.uk/

Best wishes to all for 2010

Brian Lee (688707)

Follow up to Goose and 4JSTU.

Hi Trenchard Brat,
Interesting !! We never reckoned much to a V’s chances of delivering a workable Blue Steel weapon on target either, for many reasons, but 4 JSTU was great !! So we rubbed shoulders at Edinburgh Field then and then I probably just missed you at Goose, I was gone in early July 72.

Chief Tech “Doughy” Baker was one of the 2 ex-Crew Chiefs attached to the servicing Team on Victor XL-161 at Edinburgh at that time,( Johnny Walker being the Crew Chief proper for 161.) he was my team boss too and was very good and thorough, in the old School attitudes, that nobody took exception to. He was quite a hard nut and would box anyone around the ears if he thought they needed it, but airmen jumped and he got the jobs done as needed. he was a very likable character and chap to be with in a crisis. Yes, he was the 4JSTU Airframe /Engines Trades Examiner.He set me my practical Exam for Cpl/Tech in early 1965, which was designing and making from scratch a repair scheme for the Mains 3 Phase Plug in Alloy Box structure in 161 as that was cracked and loose. I passed OK, and became a Corporal that year. ( Yes the command rank Structures had all been changed and I didn’t want Cpl. then–Too late !!!–lol) But “Doughy” did say he was taking exams,etc, and preparing for trying to get a commission in Technical Branch.

I left 4 JSTU on closedown in April 65 and never saw “Doughy” again, but I know now he got there, ——thanks for that .!! Wonder where he is now ??

———

Thanks to baz (again) got that and to Tony T, for the good laugh.

Cheers Guys.

I remember doing my Fitter’s course there, did my Mechs at St Athans on one of the very last courses,

As with all courses there was the leaving prank……. At St Athans and it was in the 70’s they topped up the Tea Urn with Laxative…. was against it as you never know, but that is what the course did, it worked too……. we could hardly contain our laughter at the queue outside the toilets all day in the hangar, but dare not tell a soul….. erm but I digress

At Halton because every course in front of us got billed to put stuff right we decided on one that would not show till after we had gone…. we aquired some Avtur to mark out on the lawns that the DI who’s name I forget was a c**t in BIG letters…… It worked and had to be relaid to hide it, but being the cheapo’s they were, they cut out the dead turf and replaced it with new stuff that showed up for weeks afterwards…… had a photo sent to me but I cannot find it. 😡

RAF Goose Bay

WV904 88th

Thanks for confirming the Blue Steel data. While in Woomera with 15JSTU a Radar Tracking trial of the Blue Steel drop was undertaken and it was a sucess as if we had fired a missile it would have caught the Blue Steel and the second missile would have downed the Victor or Vulcan.

I spent two weeks with 4 JSTU in 63 genning up and taking my Corporal Techs board as they would not send me to Singapore. I think it was a Ch/Tech Baker who took for the oral. Who later was my Boss as a F/O at RAF Marham 1966

I was at Goose bay in 1972 when the Victor tankers took the Harrier to the Trenton Air show and two of us had flights in the RCMP Otter.

I was a Victor Tanker Crew Chief from 1973 -1978 on all versions of the tanker

Hi Bill T
Lovely pics,wish I had taken some photos at Halton !!
I was never into cameras though !!
About attachments Bill…best to put your photos onto something like photobucket,you get bigger images on websites and also there is no limit on how many images you can post.
About my pic of main point,my camera was struggling with the early and extremely bright conditions,if i had taken a shot from further up the hill – you would have recognised it ok.

rgds baz

Here’s some pics,Circa 58/59

Hi baz,
Finally found some pics. and here they are.

Scan 005:- Myself (left )and best pal George “Chalky” White of 89th Entry.

This was taken in October 58 while we both were still in 2 Wing and was just off outer edge of Block 5. Block 5 room 6 was where I spent most of 1958, before the Entry move to 1 Wing.

Scan 006 This has to be the Bands Competition Final and Awards Ceremony of Summer 1958. The place is the parade Ground between 2 and 1 Wings with 1 Wing Apprentices Mess in background. I recognize the Station Warrant Officer and what I think is AVM Coslett handing awards out.
Most of bands members appear to be senior entry. That SWO was a Star on the parade ground during Drill and parades,he would have you laughing to bust even when you were running around edge of Parade Ground with a rifle above your head. (Old school RAF could do with lots of them around now. )

Scan jpg:- One of my favourite pics. from my Halton Days. This is an Official Shot of 2 Wing Pipe Band for Summer of 1958. Taken in front of 2 Wing Mess, with Parade Ground , 1 Wing Mess in distance and the edge of old Gymnasium on right. The band members are from 2 Wing Entries, before change over, can remember who they all were, but only a few names nowadays. Named are 88th, except where mentioned . Vic Loriman (Pipe Band Major ) sitting, 4th. from left. “Chiefy” Leinz, our Band Drill Instructor,( WW2 Aircrew Signaller, ( permanent Staff )(look at his medals) another great old School RAF Gem, he was also looking after the Official RAF /Apprentice Display marching team. ) 5th from left, ————-“
Mouse” Swindbourne, Trumpeter( 7th ) my banjo playing “Guru”.( 85th )
Myself next to end. And “Ginge” Plummer ( Middle row 7th. from left ) Bass Drummer, who had the embarassement of his bass drum shackle breaking off whilst we were marching Apprentices down from H blocks across Main point. The drum actually rolled right through the band, through an Apprentice formation and surprised the main Point Policeman, who I think caught it.:D:D
And 8th from left middle row, pal Bob Watkinson (87th ) Trumpeter.

Notice the old style Pipe band Drums, rope tensioned, animal skin heads, all webbing was blancoed white, and when you were caught in the rain on a parade or Lord Mayors Procession in london, the blancoe ran off into uniforms and the drums went soggy, what a mess, it killed the band sound.

I prefered the look of the Apprentice Pipe bands of those days in RAF uniform, every one knew exactly who we were, —-wheras something visually is lost in the modern Interpretation of The Halton Pipe bands. Their playing is good, but they look just like any other Scottish Pipe band, that could be a Works or Traditional Scottish Band. No doubt many will disagree, but I’ll bet ex-Brats won’t. :diablo:

Scan:- 002:- I like this pic. too as it is of a typical evening in the H Blocks.

This would be taken in 1959 when we (88th ) were in 1 Wing, cannot now remember H block or even room number, but it was ground floor and next to the small permanent Staffs Sgts. mess building.
Pic. taken as a time exposure, so the lads had to keep dead still for a few secs. ( did a good job too ) taken from by my “Pit”, thats pal Dave Godber sitting on bed with fag on. “Uriah” Heap sitting on other bed and ??? Leading Apprentice ( Snag ) standing in pajama trousers ironing his own Uniform ones-lol. Notice the boots lined up under Daves bed, large tea mug on locker,kit and abscence of bed packs. These were stored away and brought out ea. morning for the usual inspection type visit by various Staff. So our room slept in sleeping bags or scrounged blankets / sheets,most of time to save making bed packs every day. Known as BBB, that s the reason for the Air Diagram of something Technical on wall. Nobody bothered with it, but it impressed any Officialdom that came round. :diablo::D

Scan 001 Is the Official 88th. Entry Halton Graduation Dinner Card. Event was at the Olde Bull Inn, Aylesbury on 19th. Dec 1960. card is well signed by various fellas–lol.

Got some more pics. around somewhere, will post when I find them.

ps:- Noticed my attachments allowance here on this forum is just about full, How do I delete the old ones, so can keep adding pics. in future ???

Cheers fellow ex-“Brats”.

Bill T.

In answer to bazv’s question….

The Fleet Air Arm entry began in Aug 1938 and the last was in Aug 1942.

Not Halton, but Cosford for me (132 entry, 78-81)

We used to visit Halton a couple of times a year throughout the three year for route linings in London which meant that we could meet-up with the guys there who we originally met at Swinditz.

Jon

RAF Halton Apprentices 88th

Hello baz,
Just now logged on and really enjoyed looking at your pics. of Halton, The Engines, etc workshops row, still looks neat and tidy, more trees of course. Cannot hardly recognize main point, my memory must have slipped, but the shot of 1 Wing over the Parade ground is spot on. ( OK no Tornado’s there then ) The parade ground is still bumpy,lumpy and curved on an incline, your pic. was taken standing next to old Gymnasium, ( if its still there ). The Mess on right of pic. is same as are Barrack Blocks and Hills “Pimple”( More trees though ) and the the 3 ex-88th guys I didn’t know except for Pete on the right.
Baz, glad the reunion went off so well and many thanks for sharing.

Previous errata from me,:- I got 2 and 1Wings mixed up, we were moved over to 1 Wing ( Red Hat Bands ) at end of 58, from 2 Wing. ( Blue hat Bands )
Apologies to Terry P, at least I was fairly close—lol and to Trenchard Brat, you were dead right about the Blue Steel Missiles dropped on Woomera Range in early 1960’s , most were abject failures, I think about 3 only ever ran correctly. I was in 4 JSTU at Edinburgh Field at the time as a team member for Victor XL-161 and We always went in and watched the film “Rushes” of the drops after every firing. Were you a Victor Crew Chief circa 1971-2, ? I was at Goose then on the V’s.

—————————

Looking at the pic. of those neat Workshops, immediately brought back the delights of the medical check-ups and inoculations we were given in early 1958. Still on our square bashing time, we were marched down to these Workshops, about half-way along the ones in pic. and formed an orderly queue to get inside. once through door, told to strip tops off and fold arms ,wrists to the “Nancy” position on hips. ( This was 50 + yrs. ago. ) and stay on the queue that headed towards a load of medics with hyperdermics syringes in each hand and a look of delight on their faces. These sadists were thoroughly enjoying giving injections to each Apprentice, 2 in each arm, at the same time and delivered with the precision of a darts player or boil Lancer.

And of course it Bloody well hurt.!!!! 2 Apps. passed out before needle delivery and one afterwards, I kept going , but wasn’t happy about the experience. Then rest of medicals and march back up to 2 Wing , OW!!!!

Bill T.

Two Brats in a family

My father was 20th Entry (563443) and I am 86th Entry ( 682908) both of us were Engine Men My father a FAE ( Fitter Aero Engine) and me a Engine Fitter

I spent 23 years in the RAF and ended up spending twelve years at Marham in the 1960 and 1970. However a short tour at Duxford before 5 years on Bloodhound which a tour at Woomera on Bloodhound Mk 2 acceptance trials was Great NO Bull etc. Watching Blue Steel missiles cough and spit and dive into the desert what a load of rubbish. 2 years at Changi on Shacks with 205

Ended up at Marham and spent 5 years flying in all marks of the Victor tanker as the Crew Chief .

Lastly I wrote a book on the Victor

My father did a 5 year tour in Iraq and Aden without home leave from 1933-1938 with out airconditioning I dont fancy that any takers ???