Any recoverable/recovered warbirds in West Africa?

Want to buy a Firefly?

The Firefiles as mentioned here on Avspecs website are up for sale, along with some of the Sabres and a Harvard project. Some interesting photos too if you click the links.

http://www.warbirdrestoration.co.nz/trading.html

Admittedly not Africa, however Afghanistan is turning up a number of airframes, especially of the Hawker Biplane variety, which were mentioned in Fly Past last year (I believe). The difficulty with recovering the said airframes is that they lie in the middle of a pile of scrapped modern relics, which are mined and booby trapped.

“USAF storage is at Tucson (Davis Monthan), Mojave is full of airliners.”

Just a nit-pick here…. Mojave is a desert located in the south-eastern part of the State of California, with small parts extending into the southern-most part of the State of Nevada and the western part of the State of Arizona.

Davis-Monthan AFB is in the south-eastern part of the State of Arizona….. about 3 hundred miles from any part of the Mojave Desert.

This, to a Yank, is like referring to the Grampians as a Shire or County, not a mountain range, would be to a Scot.

Otherwise, yes, D-M AFB is home to many mothballed (flyable), stored, and waiting-to-be-scrapped Historic aircraft…. so many, that I sometimes get depressed at how hard it is to free any of them from the current owners (US gov., airlines, etc.), many of whom care nothing about their historic value, only about their scrap and parts value.

anyone seen this page on some blenheim relics in NAfrica?

http://www.fjexpeditions.com/frameset/nov01_4.htm

HI Jagan,

The original SAAF operation that went very very wrong was described in a certain British Historic Aviation Magazine. I think also some of the desert pics are posted elsewhere in this forum.

Rob / Kansan

I hadn’t heard of the Saabs (well, I have heard of Saabs, just not the ones in Africa).

Avspecs site and Classic Wings mention the Sabres and Fireflies–that’s where I got my info. Jerry Yagen owns at least one of the Sabres.

anyone seen this page on some blenheim relics in NAfrica?

http://www.fjexpeditions.com/frameset/nov01_4.htm

in the early 90s, during the days of ‘black hawk down’ there appeared several photographs of the graveyard of the somalian airforce. MiG17s, 19s, 21s, an-2s the lot.. all rusting and scavenged and with working ejection seats (there was a story about that one)

Even the Firefiles? I thought they were early models.

But supplied about ten years after the war and via Canada – apparently they did fly up until about 1965 or thereabouts, and could be classed as warbirds for their work attacking dissidents along the Ethiopean borders.

The Imperial Ethiopian Air Force, I.E.A.F., received eight Firefly F.1s, nine FR.1s, three T.1s and three T.2s. Most of these aircraft were supplied from Royal Canadian Navy stocks in 1954. One FR.IV was supposedly delivered as well, but confirmation is lacking.

Interesting. My info (from Fairey Firefly by W Harrison, published by Airlife) is that Ethiopia received eight FR1s (Z1955, 1982, 2000 [wrong number!], 2026, MB434, 476, 497, & 737 – although all are apparently F1s) and one T2 (MB382), all from FAA stocks via Fairey, plus from the Canadians nine FR1s (DK535, 537, 545, 560, 561, 565, PP402, 462, & 467), three T1s (DK445, DT975, & MB443), and two T2s (MB694, & PP408). There was also word that they had purchased nine Dutch Fireflies – mark not mentioned – but these were reported to be coming from Caracas and in such a poor state of repair that it was not worth the cost of transporting them.

The Fireflies and “Saabs” were recovered from Ethopia and sent to Avspecs in NZ.
Only one problem…they were Sabres, not Saabs.

So…maybe the SAABs (B17s – like that which recently appeared at Duxford – which makes it difficult to do a reasonable search for them here, and also Safirs) just didn’t go to New Zealand then? http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=16799 They certainly existed, being in service until around 1968. Thought the Fireflies (or some, at least) went to Canada?

Flood

I was wondering if any serious investigation has ever been done in theWest African regions to see if any WWII aircraft exist in a recoverable state? I know a lot of RAf aircraft were sgipped to West Africa in WWII and ferried across the continent as far as Egypt for service in the desert or Med areas.

Has anyone ever looked into that region as a source?

I would say West Africa has as bad a climate as anywhere – way too hot and wet. If you rememeber the old Nigerian/Biafran civil war (1967-70) and a 2001 TV documentary film called “Jesus Christ Airlines” (I think Air Atlantique/Atlantic were involved in its production?) – about the Joint Church Aid Airlift – whcih was in itself amazing. In the film there are a couple of Constellations at one of the airfields some of the other “independent contractors” used – they were in a hell of a state in 2001. Anything older than that will be pretty worthless, I’m sure – although if all you need is a data plate, well hey, L-1049 anyone?

As for East Africa? Who knows? I would have thought the locals would have cut anything left up for scrap, like the North African machines. You can’t make a cooking pot out of a Matilda tank like you can out of a Blenheim!!

Zimbabwe? Surely not now. Things like politics and total economic deprivation get in the way. Uganda? I remember Hasegawa made a MiG-21 model with Ugandan markings. There must have been one or two…

Rob / Kansan

I know this thread is about West Africa but when I was in Saudi a friend of mine told me a Catalina had crash landed on the Saudi coast line south of the Gulf of Aqaba and the crew survived only to be shot by hostile bedouins. He said the wreckage was still there. I don’t know if there is any truth in this story as I have heard many a yarn in those parts. Perhaps a Catalina Buff may be able to throw some light on it.

There was also a cache of T-6s, well and Harvard IVs actually rescued from Mozambique and largely restored at Thruxton in the late 80’s by Andrew Edie and others, think there were four or six- all bar one are now flyers, I think G-BHTH was one of them and thats just got airborne, G-HRVD was certainly – I beleive they were all ex-FAP (Portugese) I understand there are a few T-6 series left, certainly in SA also a few Fireflies, dont beleive they were all recovered?

Rumours of substantial Anson and Hurricane remains too.

TT

USAF storage is at Tucson (Davis Monthan), Mojave is full of airliners.

Anything in Uganda?

I knew it was one of them! :p

The Fireflies and “Saabs” were recovered from Ethopia and sent to Avspecs in NZ.
Only one problem…they were Sabres, not Saabs.

Fireflies were F.1 and T.2. Can’t remember serial #s.

Can’t remember how many Sabres or who built them.

Something to do with the lack of moisture in the desert air (or something) – that’s why the USAF has ****loads of planes mothballed in Mojave, or wherever.

USAF storage is at Tucson (Davis Monthan), Mojave is full of airliners.

Anything in Uganda?

The Imperial Ethiopian Air Force, I.E.A.F., received eight Firefly F.1s, nine FR.1s, three T.1s and three T.2s. Most of these aircraft were supplied from Royal Canadian Navy stocks in 1954. One FR.IV was supposedly delivered as well, but confirmation is lacking.

Two Ethiopian aircraft that weren’t recovered by the South African expedition in 1996 was a Cessna UC-78 Bobcat and a Stinson L-5 Sentinel. Both were little more rusted heaps of wreckage, and presumably deemed of little use.

Regards,

Jan

Except the Ethiopian aircraft were of post-war origin

Flood

Even the Firefiles? I thought they were early models.

In 1993, there were two derelict Fireflies on the airport dump at Asmara, Eritrea. I have no idea if they’re still there, but apparently, the dump was in the middle of a mine field. Two additional Fireflies, DK545 and PP462, were recovered from Asmara in the early 1990s. Both of these are now undergoing restoration in Canada.

As for Ethiopia, there were reports several years ago of a Caproni Ca 133 as well as a couple of Ro 37s.

Regards,

Jan

Just hope that the aircraft you are looking for were not found first by the french army 😮 …in 1959 they found the wrecked Blenheim T-1867 intact and… they blew it up ! 😮
http://saharayro.free.fr/grb13.htm
http://saharayro.free.fr/grb14.htm
http://saharayro.free.fr/grb15.htm
and the end…http://saharayro.free.fr/grb17.htm
Cheers,
olivier

BTW: What happened to the wreck of Shackleton “Pelican 8?”? Is it still there, or has it been burnt down for scrap already? :confused: Just curious, all I know is, the wings were removed from the fuselage, but the wreck remained on site.

Sweet, maybe i’ll get a nice Hurricane of my own after all 😀 Apparently aircraft in the desert will be in a really good condition, my Uncle went to the North African desert a few years back and noted seeing a lot of Matilda tanks e.t.c lying in the desert, pretty much in the same condition as they were when they were knocked out, something about metal not rusting in the desert. Wouldn’t it be great to find a squadron of Me 110’s left in the Desert 😀

Something to do with the lack of moisture in the desert air (or something) – that’s why the USAF has ****loads of planes mothballed in Mojave, or wherever.