Argentina and Brazil to develop nuclear submarine

No you definatly said 0/10 last time, so we will take that as the cirrect indication of your (lack of) knowledge and intellect.

1/10.

As a hint, I’ll reply when your posts reach about a 7/10 level.

Best of luck.

And a side note, at least try to spell things right when you try to insult the intelligence of someone else. LOL. . .

Well if Argentina got so close in the 1980s why haven’t I seen any Argentina nuke subs 20 years on? If I’m so ignorant of south Americas ability to build a nuclear submarine please enlighten me with facts, details which are backed up by sources. These facts and details will need to have direct connection with nuclear submarine design, development, expertise, manufacture and sustainability. Please I do not want pointless worthless pictures of planes because there the opposite of submarines they maybe technologically advanced but still the opposite…. Also I will say for sake of not having an argument that Brazil can afford it. I’m more concerned with time-scale and the quality of the boats when produced. Go on teach me!

Tras la Guerra de las Malvinas, el titular de la CNEA, vicealmirante Carlos Castro Madero, en forma reservada puso en marcha la idea de construir un submarino a propulsión nuclear como una forma de cerrar la brecha tecnológica con Gran Bretaña.

After the falklands war, the vice almirant Carlos Castro Madero started the idea of developing a nuclear submarine to close the technological gap with the UK

Argentina tried to install a nuclear reactor to a conventional diesel submarine like this one, “the San Juan”.

A FLOTE. EN UN SUBMARINO CON MOTORES DIESEL COMO EL ‘SAN JUAN’ SE QUISO PONER, DURANTE LA GESTION DE ALFONSIN, UN REACTOR NUCLEAR COMPACTO. (Foto: DYN)

Carlos madero`s project was given to the INVAP by the Argentine navy, the INVAP is the same reseach center that builds the (KAREM) nuclear reactor for Australia.

The Nuclear reactor design was headed by Juan José Gil Gerbino, we did work to build a compact nuclear reactor like the San Juan

proyecto de Castro Madero fue encargado por la Armada a INVAP, la misma empresa que construye el reactor de investigación nuclear para Australia. El diseño del reactor para el submarino estuvo a cargo del físico Juan José Gil Gerbino. “Trabajamos en el diseño básico para colocar un reactor compacto en un submarino como el San Juan”,

La idea de especialistas argentinos de incluir en el casco del submarino, que actualmente se construye en la Argentina, una planta nuclear de diseño apropiado es factible

The idea of argentine researches of fitting a nuclear reactor in the hull of a conventional submarine is totally feasible

http://www.clarin.com/suplementos/zona/2005/09/18/z-03801.htm

if you want to know why they have not built it well simply economics, not a lack of technology as you suppose, in fact both the Karem and ARAMAR nuclear reactors were made as powerplants for nuclear submarines

complejo que hasta el año 1994, manejó la Armada. En la época de Menem, las instalaciones quedaron prácticamente abandonadas y si bien es cierto que estaba montado desde la década del 80, JAMAS fabricamos allí el submarino nuclear con el que habían soñado varios gobiernos argentinos tras la segunda guerra mundial.

This shipyard that until the 1994 was managed by the Argentine Navy.

During the Menem administration the shipyard was abandoned and left to rust, if it is true that since the 1980s it was in operation, we never built there the nuclear submarine that several argentine governments had dreamt with

Lo único que recordaba es que hace algunos años, Cristina Fernández de Kirchner, estuvo allí ufanándose por la puesta en marcha de los astilleros SPI, que con 25 años de trayectoria en Mar del Plata, recalaban en Buenos Aires para ocupar una gran porción del edificio principal que fuera construido por los alemanes en la década del 80, para fabricar nada más y nada menos que un submarino NUCLEAR.

The only thing i can recall is that several years ago Cristina Fernández de Kirchner was trying to reopen the shipyards SPI that have a history of 25 years in Mar del Plata that were built in great part to house a nuclear submarine by German naval engineers

http://www.laopinionsemanario.com.ar/?tpl=noticias&nid=4466&eid=92

Frosty

The only reason i have shown you the nuclear reactors and submarines built in Brazil is too show you, you are ignorant of even of the basics in Brazil`s submarine technology, no one here even showed the ARAMAR nuclear reactor, niether has an Idea of the Karem Argentine reactor.

Probably you are unaware of how close Argentina was of a nuclear submarine in the 1980s, your ignorance of the technology in South america makes you think it will take so long, it is not true, Brazil can have a nuclear submarine operational in less than 25 years, and the technology it will have will be updated, it might not be the best submarine but it will be a good one.

Well if Argentina got so close in the 1980s why haven’t I seen any Argentina nuke subs 20 years on? If I’m so ignorant of south Americas ability to build a nuclear submarine please enlighten me with facts, details which are backed up by sources. These facts and details will need to have direct connection with nuclear submarine design, development, expertise, manufacture and sustainability. Please I do not want pointless worthless pictures of planes because there the opposite of submarines they maybe technologically advanced but still the opposite…. Also I will say for sake of not having an argument that Brazil can afford it. I’m more concerned with time-scale and the quality of the boats when produced. Go on teach me!

Brazil is fourth largest assembler? China is now the world Second largest Auto assembler in less 20 years. Russia heli/Military jets numbers per year still surpass Brazil.

Those western Suppliers has to collobrate with Russians. they dont have direct subsidiaries like in Brazil supplying to Embarer.

Yeah good for the Chinese, however Embraer is the forth largest civil aircraft maker in the world.

man good for the Russians too but in the case of Brazil they have had to bring Mitsubishi`s wing manufacturing to Brazil to reduce costs, that is good, any way star49, Brazil will continue advancing and still sells more civil aircraft than Tupolev, Sukhoi and Illyushin.

You like it or not Brazil is paying the research and development of the ERJ-145 and E-170 families and still has more than 1000 aircraft to build in the new future including options, at least 400 firm orders and a minimun of 1000 options

Man please do not make me laugh, building an aircraft industry from a propeller aircraft in the 1960s to the fourth largest aircraft maker in 30 Years even surpassing Russia in sales means you are learning too fast, however realities of aircraft construction means Embraer builds not all the aircraft, Embraer needs partners, however the next generation of aircraft will have a higher content of parts made in Brazil.

Brazil is fourth largest assembler? China is now the world Second largest Auto assembler in less 20 years. Russia heli/Military jets numbers per year still surpass Brazil.

No one is saying Brazil make s everything, niether all the design was done in Brazil, , so your game of in Russia they build everything is not logic because the latest Superjet has European and American technology too

Those western Suppliers has to collobrate with Russians. they dont have direct subsidiaries like in Brazil supplying to Embarer.

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2007/02/06/211877/powerplant-powerjet-has-won-over-sceptics-by-delivering-a-western-standard-engine-with-russian.html
Moscow’s All-Russian Scientific Research Institute of Aviation Materials and Central Institute of Aviation Motors are lending technical support to qualify the material supply chain on the Russian side.

“It’s going to be the first time we’ve led integration of a commercial aircraft engine and designed such central elements as the core and the FADEC,” says Snecma vice-president for commercial engines Jean-Pierre Cojan. “We had a lot of sceptics in the beginning, people who predicted we couldn’t build a Western-certificated engine with such a large content being from Russia. But Russia has a fantastic educational base and fantastic employees.”

As well as overseeing design and production, PowerJet will co-ordinate marketing of the SaM146. Chereau says: “Russian partners are very good at designing engines and good at building them, but they’re not particularly good at selling them.”

Embrarer has rolled out thousands planes & still it is learning? it is mean it is not learning. u need to roll out couple of planes to learn every thing for those who understand.

Russia is understating the statistics. it will scare the world if truth comes out & there will be fear of take over of natural resources & all strategic industries.

This is pretty much useless press release. u should understand the difference between subsidiaries & own intellectual potential.

Man please do not make me laugh, building an aircraft industry from a propeller aircraft in the 1960s to the fourth largest aircraft maker in 30 Years even surpassing Russia in sales means you are learning too fast, however realities of aircraft construction means Embraer builds not all the aircraft, Embraer needs partners, however the next generation of aircraft will have a higher content of parts made in Brazil.

from this

to the E-195 in less than 30 years

No one is saying Brazil makes everything, niether all the design was done in Brazil, so your game of in Russia they build everything is not logic because the latest Superjet has European and American technology too

Yeah yeah yeah Star49, let us analize the situation, number one i have never said Brazil builds the E-170 totally in brazil or designed everything, Embraer is basicly learning how to build aircraft, true some of the manufacturing has been taken to Brazil such as Mitsubishi`s wings, however brazil is making money and learning.

Embrarer has rolled out thousands planes & still it is learning? it is mean it is not learning. u need to roll out couple of planes to learn every thing for those who understand.

Now Moscow is not Russia, Moscow and Saint Petersburg, are two cities, expensive true, but the russian far east is not rich, niether some hinterland cities, to be expensive it does not mean every body makes money, you are even fantasizing Russia hides the statistics, it is not true, the Russian population is shrinking and men still live less than 58 years in average.

Russia is understating the statistics. it will scare the world if truth comes out & there will be fear of take over of natural resources & all strategic industries.

Russia is trying to rebuild its aircraft industry, i do not deny that, but so far Embraer builds more and sells more and basicly they are learning to make more parts each time in Brazil, in fact a great part of the fuselage of the E-170 family is built in Brazil now and was designed in Brazil too.

EMBRAER 170 PROGRAMME

The 170/190 regional jet family is being developed through a partnership program with major aerospace contractors, involving 16 risk-sharing partners and 22 main suppliers.

Embraer is responsible for the design and development of the aircraft, manufacture of the forward fuselage, fuselage centre section II, wing-to-fuselage fairings, wing assembly and whole aircraft integration. Other companies responsible for structural sections of the aircraft include Kawasaki Heavy Industries from Japan, Sonaca of Belgium, Latécoère of France and Gamesa of Spain.

“Assembly of the Embraer 170 is being carried out in a dedicated newly constructed 16,000m² facility.”The US-based C&D Aerospace is supplying the passenger cabin and cargo compartment interiors of the aircraft.

The main system partners include General Electric (engines and nacelles), Hamilton Sundstrand (tail cone, auxiliary power unit, air management and electrical systems), Honeywell (avionics), Parker of the USA (hydraulics, flight control, fuel system) and Liebherr of Germany (landing gear). These companies have created subsidiaries in Brazil for the local manufacture of parts.

Assembly of the Embraer 170 is being carried out in a dedicated newly constructed 16,000m² facility, which has the capacity for eight aircraft under construction. A 4,000m² painting hangar has also been installed.

http://www.aerospace-technology.com/projects/embraer_170/

This is pretty much useless press release. u should understand the difference between subsidiaries & own intellectual potential.

An interesting fact that Moscow has on average the most expensive hotels in the world is this a sign of wealth? source http://www.guardian.co.uk/travel/2008/mar/16/hottopic.bulgaria . Please could you stop posting pictures of pointless pictures of industry which shows no indication on Brazil’s ability to build a nuclear submarine the exception being pictures of Naval reactors and Brazilian “constructed” submarines not “assembled”. I think that your idea of 10 years from first steel cut to in service a bit ambitious considering that first steel cut for HMS Astute was in 1999 but she probably wont be in service until 2009. Considering how much trouble the Chinese had with the Han class I think its quite obvious that it would take longer than 10 years from design to in service. Another thing is pictures of poverty which are pointless I could easily get a picture of homeless people in the UK or any other country so they are pointless.

Frosty

The only reason i have shown you the nuclear reactors and submarines built in Brazil is too show you, you are ignorant of even of the basics in Brazil`s submarine technology, no one here even showed the ARAMAR nuclear reactor, niether has an Idea of the Karem Argentine reactor.

Probably you are unaware of how close Argentina was of a nuclear submarine in the 1980s, your ignorance of the technology in South america makes you think it will take so long, it is not true, Brazil can have a nuclear submarine operational in less than 25 years, and the technology it will have will be updated, it might not be the best submarine but it will be a good one.

I told u Brazil is not building anything it is merely assembling it. So no point in for comparision. And Russian Wealth statistics are outdated. They dont want to update it otherwise it will scare the West. compare Moscow/ST.Petersubrg real estate to London/Tokoyo/Paris. It is no less than that. Brazil is not even in competition.

Yeah yeah yeah Star49, let us analize the situation, number one i have never said Brazil builds the E-170 totally in brazil or designed everything, Embraer is basicly learning how to build aircraft, true some of the manufacturing has been taken to Brazil such as Mitsubishi`s wings, however brazil is making money and learning.

Now Moscow is not Russia, Moscow and Saint Petersburg, are two cities, expensive true, but the russian far east is not rich, niether some hinterland cities, to be expensive it does not mean every body makes money, you are even fantasizing Russia hides the statistics, it is not true, the Russian population is shrinking and men still live less than 58 years in average.

Russia is trying to rebuild its aircraft industry, i do not deny that, but so far Embraer builds more and sells more and basicly they are learning to make more parts each time in Brazil, in fact a great part of the fuselage of the E-170 family is built in Brazil now and was designed in Brazil too.

EMBRAER 170 PROGRAMME

The 170/190 regional jet family is being developed through a partnership program with major aerospace contractors, involving 16 risk-sharing partners and 22 main suppliers.

Embraer is responsible for the design and development of the aircraft, manufacture of the forward fuselage, fuselage centre section II, wing-to-fuselage fairings, wing assembly and whole aircraft integration. Other companies responsible for structural sections of the aircraft include Kawasaki Heavy Industries from Japan, Sonaca of Belgium, Latécoère of France and Gamesa of Spain.

“Assembly of the Embraer 170 is being carried out in a dedicated newly constructed 16,000m² facility.”The US-based C&D Aerospace is supplying the passenger cabin and cargo compartment interiors of the aircraft.

The main system partners include General Electric (engines and nacelles), Hamilton Sundstrand (tail cone, auxiliary power unit, air management and electrical systems), Honeywell (avionics), Parker of the USA (hydraulics, flight control, fuel system) and Liebherr of Germany (landing gear). These companies have created subsidiaries in Brazil for the local manufacture of parts.

Assembly of the Embraer 170 is being carried out in a dedicated newly constructed 16,000m² facility, which has the capacity for eight aircraft under construction. A 4,000m² painting hangar has also been installed.

http://www.aerospace-technology.com/projects/embraer_170/

An interesting fact that Moscow has on average the most expensive hotels in the world is this a sign of wealth? source http://www.guardian.co.uk/travel/2008/mar/16/hottopic.bulgaria . Please could you stop posting pictures of pointless pictures of industry which shows no indication on Brazil’s ability to build a nuclear submarine the exception being pictures of Naval reactors and Brazilian “constructed” submarines not “assembled”. I think that your idea of 10 years from first steel cut to in service a bit ambitious considering that first steel cut for HMS Astute was in 1999 but she probably wont be in service until 2009. Considering how much trouble the Chinese had with the Han class I think its quite obvious that it would take longer than 10 years from design to in service. Another thing is pictures of poverty which are pointless I could easily get a picture of homeless people in the UK or any other country so they are pointless.

1/10.

No you definatly said 0/10 last time, so we will take that as the cirrect indication of your (lack of) knowledge and intellect.

Sorry for my spelling of the word impoverished.

Any way that is what i like about Brazil`s Embraer and the VLS program Brazil has focused more its energy into civil uses of high tech, and making money rather than piling up weponry that will rust after many years.

Also the deal that Argentina and Brazil stroke was to create Civil nuclear plants to generate electricity for the Mercosur countries.

Also Brazil has a GDP as big as the Russian one but also spends less in weapons slightly more than a half of what Russia spends, and a single Submarine does not compare to the many Submarines Russia wants to build.

the Brazilian nuclear submarine program also advances at a slower pace simply because they pour less money into it.

In many ways Brazil is not as militaristic as Russia is, if it is true that in some areas Brazil is behind i see a better influence in the world of the brazilian economy than the ultramilitaristic Russia policies of selling weapons.

Embraer and Sukhoi reflect both nations very well, Russia wants to still sell more weapons that civil products, see Sukhoi sells mostly Flankers while brazil mostly E-170 and ERJ-145 aircraft even despite Russia can build aircraft as powerful as the A-340 or Boeing 757.

Russia is by no means a nation with high standards of living and you can see it simply because every year there are less russians living in their own country and the Russian population is shrinking

I said nothing about spelling.

I asked you to learn to use the word correctly, which means having some basic idea of what “impoverished” means.

Sorry for my spelling of the word impoverished.

Any way that is what i like about Brazil`s Embraer and the VLS program Brazil has focused more its energy into civil uses of high tech, and making money rather than piling up weponry that will rust after many years.

Also the deal that Argentina and Brazil stroke was to create Civil nuclear plants to generate electricity for the Mercosur countries.

Also Brazil has a GDP as big as the Russian one but also spends less in weapons slightly more than a half of what Russia spends, and a single Submarine does not compare to the many Submarines Russia wants to build.

the Brazilian nuclear submarine program also advances at a slower pace simply because they pour less money into it.

In many ways Brazil is not as militaristic as Russia is, if it is true that in some areas Brazil is behind i see a better influence in the world of the brazilian economy than the ultramilitaristic Russia policies of selling weapons.

Embraer and Sukhoi reflect both nations very well, Russia wants to still sell more weapons that civil products, see Sukhoi sells mostly Flankers while brazil mostly E-170 and ERJ-145 aircraft even despite Russia can build aircraft as powerful as the A-340 or Boeing 757.

Russia is by no means a nation with high standards of living and you can see it simply because every year there are less russians living in their own country and the Russian population is shrinking

I told u Brazil is not building anything it is merely assembling it. So no point in for comparision. And Russian Wealth statistics are outdated. They dont want to update it otherwise it will scare the West. compare Moscow/ST.Petersubrg real estate to London/Tokoyo/Paris. It is no less than that. Brazil is not even in competition.

http://en.rian.ru/analysis/20080319/101701975.html
MOSCOW. (Military commentator Nikita Petrov for RIA Novosti) – “The Irkut Corporation will gradually move to building civilian, rather than military, aircraft, and its main product will be the aircraft of the future, the MS-21.”

Those are the words of Oleg Demchenko, president of the Irkut Corporation, one of Russia’s leading aircraft manufacturers. You could be forgiven for thinking this was just routine corporate bombast. After all, it is not uncommon for an ambitious executive to make his mark on a company by signaling a change in strategy. And what company launching a new product would not dub it the car, soap, or soft-drink “of the future”?

Yet this is no ordinary rebranding. Irkut, like most Russian aircraft manufacturers, has traditionally focused on military aircraft. But the industry has recently fallen on hard times. Riding on the success of the $3.5 billion MS-21 project, contends Demchenko, is the survival of an entire industry.

Alongside, the MS-21 project is part of the Federal Civil Aviation Program till 2015.

“If our country fails here by not producing a jet incorporating advanced materials, avionics and engines and featuring paperless design and international cooperation,” he says, “we could say good-bye to our aircraft manufacturing.”

The MS-21 is not the only medium-range civilian aircraft to emerge from Russia recently – Sukhoi Civil Aircraft’s Russian Superjet-100 (RRJ) shares similar characteristics. But the significance the industry attaches to the MS-21 is evidenced by the host of Russian aviation companies involved in the project. These include such iconic names as the Yakutsk Design Bureau, Sukhoi, the Beriev Taganrog Aviation Scientific Technical Complex, famed for its Be-200 seaplanes – Tupolev and Antonov. Several western corporations are also involved.

The initial stages of the project, covering the basic elements and design ideas for a prototype, have already cost 1.5 billion rubles (over $60 million). In September of this year a conceptual design will be prepared and digitization (preparation of digital drawings) of the plane’s components will begin. The aircraft will finally be rolled out for flight testing in 2010.

To maximize their competitive edge, the designers have consciously avoided the long-haul market. The market for wide-bodied passenger aircraft is dominated by Boeing and Airbus. It would be useless to compete with their latest designs, such as the Boeing-787 Dreamliner or the giant Airbus A-380, which can seat between 500 and 800 passengers.

The niche for narrow-bodied jet liners carrying 150 to 180 travelers is another matter. True, there are rival models here, too: particularly the Boeing-737, the Airbus A-320. But Airbus is set to phase out the A-320 to provide room for new orders. By the time the MS-21 is certified and airborne, A-320s will no longer be produced, leaving a gap in the market that Irkut hopes to exploit.

Irkut has actively cultivated the impression of the MS-21 as the heir to the A-320, promising to make it 15% to 20% more efficient than the Airbus plane. Demchenko guarantees that the new model will also be more comfortable than its Russian counterparts.

Above all, the objective is to make the new aircraft as competitive as possible on the international market.

“We will enlist the best in the world to develop the MS-21,” Demchenko says. This follows the strategy used by Sukhoi as it developed its RRJ. Such an arrangement helped the firm not only to have the airliner certified for its main characteristics, but also to secure firm orders from both Russian and overseas operators.

Building up facilities for the development and manufacture of the MS-21 will be one of the main planks of an international cooperation program to build the Aircraft of the Future. In the next two years Irkut will invest $80 million in retooling and new equipment. At the same time, it will adopt new management standards.

“Such a strategy is a must,” say Russian aircraft firms, “if you want to enter international markets with your products.”

Secondly, the MS-21 will make extensive use of composites, which are particularly strong and very light. Sukhoi has already accepted Irkut’s proposal to make a carbon wing for the liner, which performs better than wings from other materials.

In addition to newly configured wings, the MS-21 will also feature advanced avionics and a new and more efficient engine, consuming 25% less fuel than comparable models and being 15% more environment-friendly. In other words, it will have a lower noise level and be less polluting.

In August of this year, Irkut is to announce a tender for a powerplant for the airliner, and the winner will get an order for its production. But the main stipulation is that the winner must be Russian.

All moving parts and assemblies, including the air-frame, landing gear struts, tail unit, engine nacelles, ailerons and other components, will be manufactured in Russia. “We will support Russian producers,” Demchenko said.

Together with the Sukhoi’s SuperJet-100, the new medium-haul MS-21 will meet up to 80% of Russia’s domestic requirements in new passenger planes and could compete on international routes.

What’s more ironic is there’s plenty of poverty in the US and they spend the MOST money on weapons.

Not to mention, you shouldn’t throw around the word impoverished without actually knowing how to use it correctly.

Sorry for my spelling of the word impoverished.

Any way that is what i like about Brazil`s Embraer and the VLS program Brazil has focused more its energy into civil uses of high tech, and making money rather than piling up weponry that will rust after many years.

Also the deal that Argentina and Brazil stroke was to create Civil nuclear plants to generate electricity for the Mercosur countries.

Also Brazil has a GDP as big as the Russian one but also spends less in weapons slightly more than a half of what Russia spends, and a single Submarine does not compare to the many Submarines Russia wants to build.

the Brazilian nuclear submarine program also advances at a slower pace simply because they pour less money into it.

In many ways Brazil is not as militaristic as Russia is, if it is true that in some areas Brazil is behind i see a better influence in the world of the brazilian economy than the ultramilitaristic Russia policies of selling weapons.

Embraer and Sukhoi reflect both nations very well, Russia wants to still sell more weapons that civil products, see Sukhoi sells mostly Flankers while brazil mostly E-170 and ERJ-145 aircraft even despite Russia can build aircraft as powerful as the A-340 or Boeing 757.

Russia is by no means a nation with high standards of living and you can see it simply because every year there are less russians living in their own country and the Russian population is shrinking

What Jungleboy has pointed out it is correct, he has mentioned that despite Brazil has a relatively good industry, there is still poverty, real one, where children are homeless and street children abound, how can you think a nation will have a future if its youth is in poverty how those street children will develop high tech?

he is right specially when he mentions real aspects about the poverty in Brazil, Brazil is trying to build a nuclear submarine and still in some parts of Brazil poverty is endemic, in Russia also is similar, they spend large amounts of money when still in some aspects poverty affects a great part of the Russian population.

Both countries have developed an stratety to coupe with the competing international situation for trade and commerce, this implies to have more domestic technology, Brazil also has developed nuclear reactors that eventually can be used to generate electricity and at the long run power a submarine, however since technology has dual uses you can have a nuclear powered submarine and a nuclear reactor generating cheap electricity for a city like Buenos Aires or Rio do Janeiro.

you can have a VLS to launch telecommunications satellites or use it to carry a nuclear warhead

However it is an irony that many empoverished nations spend large amounts of money in weapons and still have street children and homeless people

What’s more ironic is there’s plenty of poverty in the US and they spend the MOST money on weapons.

Not to mention, you shouldn’t throw around the word impoverished without actually knowing how to use it correctly.

Damn man, America is so poor!

Yeah, the picture strategy is amazing. :rolleyes:

ROFL…

What Jungleboy has pointed out it is correct, he has mentioned that despite Brazil has a relatively good industry, there is still poverty, real one, where children are homeless and street children abound, how can you think a nation will have a future if its youth is in poverty how those street children will develop high tech?

he is right specially when he mentions real aspects about the poverty in Brazil, Brazil is trying to build a nuclear submarine and still in some parts of Brazil poverty is endemic, in Russia also is similar, they spend large amounts of money when still in some aspects poverty affects a great part of the Russian population.

Both countries have developed an stratety to coupe with the competing international situation for trade and commerce, this implies to have more domestic technology, Brazil also has developed nuclear reactors that eventually can be used to generate electricity and at the long run power a submarine, however since technology has dual uses you can have a nuclear powered submarine and a nuclear reactor generating cheap electricity for a city like Buenos Aires or Rio do Janeiro.

you can have a VLS to launch telecommunications satellites or use it to carry a nuclear warhead

However it is an irony that many empoverished nations spend large amounts of money in weapons and still have street children and homeless people

Damn man, America is so poor!

Yeah, the picture strategy is amazing. :rolleyes:

ROFL…

We all know your average exam result………….but what does that have to do with this thread?:confused:

1/10.

what about sales

now let us see the numbers of Embraer

Firm orders of ERJ-145 family 915 aircraft, delivered 869, firm orders back log 46

Firm orders E-170 family 764 aircraft delivered 334 firm orders backlog 438 options 917

source http://www.embraer.com/english/conte…er_numeros.asp firm order backlog USD $18.6 billion

u can 1000 orders but it is just assembling. Thats why u have only $7.6B of market cap.
Russian through Aviation projects is laying foundation of Scienfic base that will dominate the rest of century. 5th generation fighter is major project it includes all the knowledge about advance manufacturing techniques, engine development & very high end avionics systems that u can use in Civillian planes. Brazil simply dont have a single project on that scale.

http://www.avid.ru/eng/advanced-developments/based-ps-12
PS-7

Thrust
Take off (N = 0; M = 0), kgf 7000
Maximum take off power, kgf 7700
Cruise
(N = 11 km; M = 0.8; ISA), kgf 1550.
Specific fuel consumption
at cruise, kg/kgf hr 0.620
Fan diameter, mm 1210
Dry weight, kg 1350

For long-range executive (business) aircraft of the TU-414 type and “Global express” (Bombardier)

Number of passengers 8…19
Flight range, km 8000…11000
Take-off weight, ton 40…45

and regional aircraft

Number of passengers 60-95;
Flight range, km 2500…4000
Take-off weight, ton 40…45

PS-9

Thrust
Take-off (N = 0; M = 0), kgf 9000
Maximum take-off power, kgf 10000
Cruise
(N = 11 km; M = 0.8; ISA), kgf 2100
Specific fuel consumption
at cruise, kg/kgf hr 0.590
Fan diameter, mm 1435
Dry weight, kg 1800

For short-haul aircraft of the TU-334 type

Number of passengers 100…110
Flight length, km 2000…2500
Take-off weight, ton 50…60

and multi-purpose amphibious airplane of the Be-200 type.

PS-14P

Thrust
Take off (N = 0; M = 0), kgf 14 500
Maximum take-off power, kgf 15 900
Cruise mode
(N = 11 km; M = 0.8; ISA), kgf 2750
Specific fuel consumption
at cruise, kg/kgf hr 0.530
Fan diameter, mm 2 050
Dry weight, kg 2600

For advanced modifications of medium-haul aircraft and transport aircraft of IL-76 family.

PS-18P

Thrust
Take off (N = 0; M = 0), kgf 18 000
Maximum take-off power, kgf 20 000
Cruise mode
(N = 11 km; M = 0.8; ISA), kgf 3 500
Specific fuel consumption
at cruise, kg/kgf hr 0.520
Fan diameter, mm 2 300
Dry weight, kg 3 200

For advanced modifications of medium-haul aircraft of Tu-204 family and long-haul aircraft of IL-96 family

MOSCOW. May 10 (Interfax-AVN) – The Perm-based Aviadvigatel company is going to start developing a new generation engine for commercial aircraft in 2008, company’s Management Director and Designer General Alexander Inozemtsev said during the meeting with young specialists of the enterprise.

“Next year we expect to receive a powerful financial support of our new project – the promising family of engines for commercial aircraft,” he is quoted as saying in the press release of the company, received by Interfax-AVN on Thursday
According to him, the project is very ambitions as the end result promises to have most brilliant specifications: “If we develop the gas generator as we wish, it will be second to none in the world. The same will be the engines, which would be able to propel any aircraft – Russian, Chinese, Boeings and Airbuses,” Inozemtsev said
Our design bureau needs this money badly. However, we did not get it because of the errors with the addendum to the federal program of the Russian Federation on commercial aviation development through 2015,” he said. Nevertheless, the company managed to implement its business-plan by 92%, which is mostly a result of increased sales of power generating units

http://www.royfc.com/news/jan/3007jan02.html
The future MS-21 short and medium range airplane, which is included in the Unified Aviation Company’s ((OAK)) product line, will be created based on breakthrough technologies which have been developed at Central Aerohydrodynamic Institute, TsAGI’s director, Vladimir Kargopol’tsev, has reported to ARMS-TASS.

According to him, the MS-21 is being created as a new generation airplane which will define a new level of worldwide aircraft construction. It will exceed worldwide counterparts by 15 – 20 percent in fuel effectiveness and have an increased flight speed, appreciably increased safety, and improved control system aerodynamics.

For resolution of these missions, Kargopol’tsev said, it is necessary to introduce progressive solutions for the airplane which already have been defined by Central Aerohydrodynamic Institute together with other Russian institutes, and at the present time are in development. Included is the creation of a prototype fully composite wing with a 22-meter outer wing ((KONSOL’)) span which will provide decreased fuel consumption and increased speed.

“We have advanced to three hundredths of Mach ((NA TRI SOTYE MAKHA)) in speed,” the Central Aerohydrodynamic Institute director noted. This, according to him, “is a principle achievement for worldwide aviation science, inasmuch as civil airplanes already are being used at the limit of shock stall.” A number of design problems exist in this area which are connected with the beginning of supersonic regions. They are solved for military airplanes by increased engine power; however, on commercial airplanes “for which questions of economy are defining along with reliability, it is impossible to install oversized engines.” A wing from composite materials (KM) is one of the solutions to this problem, the scientist explained.

According to him, it is being proposed to equip the “Superjet-100” with a composite wing in the future. Central Aerohydrodynamic Institute now not only is testing the future regional airplane, but also is determining the possibilities of increasing its effectiveness for the future.

A composite wing is being created by Central Aerohydrodynamic Institute along with the All-Russian Institute of Aviation Materials, the Scientific Institute of Aviation Technologies, and the Obninsk Scientific Production Enterprise Tekhnologiya. Its series production may be introduced at the Voronezh Joint Stock Airplane Building Company

Sukhoi SSJ was started when Sukhoi didnot had government support. so they have to look for international risk sharing partners. Still all Design, testing, Engine is done inside Russia. Why they are not calling western suppliers for this new project? where is Embarer strategy now?. What do u think about Tu-204SM?

what about sales

now let us see the numbers of Embraer

Firm orders of ERJ-145 family 915 aircraft, delivered 869, firm orders back log 46

Firm orders E-170 family 764 aircraft delivered 334 firm orders backlog 438 options 917

source http://www.embraer.com/english/conte…er_numeros.asp firm order backlog USD $18.6 billion