Argentine Chinook Vs Harrier. No contest.

😀

At least we didn’t use jacking handles on the Chinook drive shafts like the Yanks sadly did with dire consequences

Ex RAF Chinook Sootie too BTW

Tony -I mustn’t post first thing in the morning! I was busy taking a CH-47 engine off in my mind!

phot i took in approx 1997 shows both ecu’s still fitted,tho the stbd ecu has been robbed blind the core of it is still there,post conflict the hulk was used as a small arms target so it is now riddled with 7.62 holes.

Great stuff about the Pumas.

Civvie rumour at the time of the Falklands engagement was that the RAF Pumas were left at home because:

1. They had not been operated off a ship deck and there was concern about their lateral stability
2. There was a risk of fratricide with the Argie Pumas already having been deployed.

Not sure about the veracity of point 1 as the Argies did operate Pumas off decks and the ALAT do so off heli carriers ( starting with Jeanne d’Arc ).

What drives? The splined shaft connected via a flector ( spelling ) pack to the rear of the engine simply pushes into the splined slot when you pivot the engine up on its legs, three 10 mm bolts through the gearbox into the engine then secure it, that is the only connection on a Turmo, everything else as said, legs, electrics, fuel and controls rods are quick release. Simplicity in itself.. Makilla ( spelling ) varies a bit.

Ex RAF Puma Sootie BTW 😉

You have the drives as well -you would be going some to get one off in twenty.

Yes, engine is held in by 3 ten mil bolts at the back, then hinges on two legs that are quick disconnect nappy pins, electrics, fuel and controls are quick release unions, plus the air intake boot at the front, think that’s it, going back a bit, but getting one out in that timeframe is plausible.

There has always been one helicopter account from the Falklands conflict that has interested me. It concerns the first aircraft lost during the conflict, an Argentine Puma, that was brought-down by small-arms fire during the initial invasion South Georgia. The aircraft was crash-landed, overturning in the process, and had to be abandoned but the crew were given a short time (twenty minutes?) to recover anything useful; the account states that in this time they managed to recover several items including one of the engines!

Does that sound like it would be possible?

If I remember correctly the other Chinook recovered back to Fleetlands was inspected by the RAF but in the meantime the Army found it and collected a few souvenirs, the Army after it was dismantled used the rotor blades as loading ramps.
The RWR was as with all the fit thrown on it at Odiham was a really rapid fit, with a lot of the stuff strapped under the seats. There was also a scheme for the Chinook to be used to provide ground power to the Harrier and trials were carried out on the quiet…. Well that was the plan but the arrival of a Harrier at Odiham literally had the whole station turn out to see it. The situation as said was very very fluid, Puma was going to the Falklands so bags were to be produced to ship them in, it was then thought changed to bringing 72 back from NI and sending Wessex that would be better as it had a lot of commonality of spares with the Navy versions, in the end that got kicked into touch too. Ahh happy days.

As the late CJ told me his biggest concern wasn’t from the air, but a determined person on the ground with a GPMG firing at them.
I always felt sitting in the cockpit of a Puma surrounded by perspex a very vunerable position, even with the chest armour worn. At least the Wessex had some arrmour about it to protect some of the vunerable parts.

Vague recollections surfacing of a photo in AFM years ago.

French ALAT AS.355 fitted with door-mounted M621 cannon for air defence of the Ariane facility in Guiana, the main threat being anticipated to be malevolent light aircraft.

Light aircraft piloted with malevolent purpose, that is. And in this case it would be seeking them out, not defending.

It must have felt very satisfying being in that Alouette, having been, seemingly, at the mercy of the Defender (Land Rover?:diablo:) and turning the tables on the beggar, CR!

Technically the Rhodesians were in Botswana’s airspace, hence it appears to have been classified as a ‘criminal occurrence’, but I think the gunner ( ‘copper tech’ in RhAF parlance ) was nevertheless delighted.

Aviation Safety Database

I’m sure I read somewhere, pre-Internet, that the Defender was being flown by two British ‘contract’ pilots. Edit: and that they survived.

There are various accounts of Iranian and Iraqi helicopters engaging and destroying attacking fast jets, but no others of which I know involving a transport helo doing so. Yet…

Wreckage of Argentine Chinook at the base of Mount Kent in the Falklands last week.
Mark

Do I hear…

Thin but robust…:D

Herc

Thanks for that info, CD.

It must have felt very satisfying being in that Alouette, having been, seemingly, at the mercy of the Defender (Land Rover?:diablo:) and turning the tables on the beggar, CR!

Anon.

Brave chap who tackles a Ch-47 these days; Minigun, M-60’s, chaff, flares, etc…!

On a tangent, I believe the reason that the RAF have the only M60s in the UK inventory is that they were qualified on the Chinook and came as part of the package ( ‘associated equipment’ in FMS parlance ).

Ideally they would have fitted the L7 GPMG for commonality but since the M60s were on the sprue they decided to use them. Just means they need a separate logistics channel to maintain them for that one application.

Re: clarification that Chinook was on ground in the incident; thank you, I had conflated it with another incident.

Re: the hazard of helicopters with door guns, I know at least of a Botswana Defender that met its end after harassing a Rhodesian Alo III which had an MG151/20 mounted in the door.

Did the Herc come down over land or did that go into the sea as well?

Into the sea.

Herc?

Mention was made earlier in this thread of a Herc that was shot down. I understand an Argie Canberra or two was dispatched as well though I think these were over the sea.

Did the Herc come down over land or did that go into the sea as well?

Interesting pics, Mark12. Thanks.

Anon.

No contest? Really..??

The Argie was caught napping, on the ground. No contest there.

Now, a Chinook with Radar Warning (or not), and a competent crew that spot the Jet early is quite a difficult target to engage, and to destroy. One sure way to ensure a kill is to lob a 1000lb bomb as it passes over, assuming he has the time, the ordnance and can be bothered. Often, on a second pass after acquiring the hell – never a good idea.

Having done Affil from both ends (FJ and Rotary), on the same day, it is extremely difficult to visually acquire the hell while manoeuvring, and also very easy to fly yourself into the ground by being over enthusiastic!

Brave chap who tackles a Ch-47 these days; Minigun, M-60’s, chaff, flares, etc…!

No contest? Possibly….

CH47C AE-521 destroyed on the ground by 1 Sqn Harrier XZ963 flown by Flt Lt Hare 21.5.82

XZ963 was the one hit by small arms fire in the fuel tanks and ran out of fuel before reaching the carrier, right?

There are also a pair of Pumas near Shag Cove that were given away by glint/shadow and one was a manoeuvre kill as it attempted an ambitious break whilst overloaded with mortar rounds whilst the other landed on and was strafed.

Thanks for the first-hand info! Good to hear from a source.

Re: the glint, that’s interesting as the US Army had introduced a flat-plate canopy on the AH-1P Cobra in the late 1970s specifically to reduce glinting. I really must go digging for the studies that led to that.

Edit: I have seen Pumas parked in the field with canvas covers thrown over the cockpit, but I suppose there’s little else one can do to reduce glint off those gorgeous curved windows.

I thought this Chinook was strafed on the ground with 30mm after it was missed in a cluster-bomb attack?