Ark Royal for Sale???

Opening the MEMORY BOX once again for you Nostalgic chaps

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_p_Du7Ss3bBo/SkXhPnZE7GI/AAAAAAAAA08/oyUWA5Udpp8/s1600/F8.jpg

Ok now to cut this hijacked thread here and start a new thread about What the RAN “SHOULD” have done!

I forgot did the French Navy ever use the quad missile racks on the Crusader???

Opening the MEMORY BOX once again for you Nostalgic chaps

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_p_Du7Ss3bBo/SkXhPnZE7GI/AAAAAAAAA08/oyUWA5Udpp8/s1600/F8.jpg

Ok now to cut this hijacked thread here and start a new thread about What the RAN “SHOULD” have done!

Hmm yes, they do seem to have trouble maintaining aircraft…… Ive read that out of 205 hueys they have had delivered, only 30-40 are active!

And Scooter, couldnt agree more, I never really appreciated the F-8 when I was younger(small missle load), but oh baby do they just say sexy! they remind me of the one guy in the pub you wouldnt want to fight without a UZI!

Its a shame the Philllipines didnt know how to properly maintain theirs……..

My fantasy: 1969……..Australia buys HMS Victorious and 12 to 15 F-8s……..:rolleyes:

You know what they say………..When your out of F-8’s. Your out of Fighters!:diablo:

18 F-8Hs (F-8Ds upgraded to F-8E standards, as the F-8E was out of production, and the USN wouldn’t part with any). Alternately, waiting a year gets F-8Js (upgraded F-8Cs fitted with the high-lift wing improvements of the French Crusaders).
10 for the squadron, 2 for composite OCU, and 6 for attrition reserve.

5 RF-8Gs, 3 for squadron, 2 OCU/reserve.

18 A-7Cs (the TF41 powered A-7E wasn’t yet in production… the A-7C was an A-7E in all but the engine [uprated TF30]), same allocation as F-8H. Alternately, waiting 2 years might get A-7Es.

5 E-1B Tracers, 3 for composite S-2/E-1 squadron and 2 for OCU/reserve.

Transfer the S-2E Trackers and the Wessex helos.

This is your standard air wing.

Use the A-4Gs for training and to augment the F-8s/A-7s in a war scenario.

HMAS Melbourne could be kept as training carrier, and would embark the S-2s & Wessexes to provide ASW escort for HMAS Australia (ex-Victorious) in a war scenario.

Thus, in a war, there would be an ASW carrier (S-2 & Wessex) and a strike carrier (F-8s, A-7s, & A-4s with E-1C co-ordination.

http://www.joebaugher.com/navy_fighters/f8.html
http://www.joebaugher.com/usattack/newa7.html

My fantasy: 1969……..Australia buys HMS Victorious and 12 to 15 F-8s……..:rolleyes:

The Good old days- just for you my friend on the far coast

Love this picture – nice and clear and showing a great carrier compliment. Brazil should look at this.

…
And who said Australians aren’t at the forefront of Naval technology? We even developed a Sub that could fly off a Skyhawk to attack you when and where you least expected it!
…

😀 Whats the story behind this? PS?

\Dan

Ohhh man, Scoot I boobed, I was mixing you up with Badger- see, proof positive of how much I have been working lately:(

Hey, I know what you mean……:o

Strategic defence review centre? mark us down for 2 more RAR battalions buddy….and 2 extra commando companys fo 1 cdo

Thanks for the A4 photos, just love them, but still have a soft spot for the red checkerboards!

I say still think that there will be 100+ F-35A/C for the RAAF….75 covers the 71 F/A-18A+s and the other 25 covers the 24 F/A-18Fs with 1&6sqns…….. minimum. a F-35B buy would really need to be of 25(2 sqn of 12 for RAN,1for ARDU) and with our current trend of growth, maybe another 20-40 F-35A/C for new squadrons…. the dream plan of fightertown west at pearce….

I think you could get by with as little as 20 F-35B’s. With 6-8 Aircraft in to detachments. With the remaining 4-Aircraft for ARDU.

The MMI might like more F-35B, but it’s not going to have two carriers to fly them from. Giuseppe Garibaldi will retire, probably about the same time as the Harriers, leaving it with only Cavour.

GG should be replaced by a STOVL-capable LHD (approved but not yet funded, IIRC), to function as an amphibious assault ship except when Cavour is in repair or refit – i.e. the same model as the Armada with Principe de Asturias & Juan Carlos 1.

22 F-35B is enough to provide a peacetime complement for Cavour, plus training & reserves, with the planned AMI contingent to provide a surge capacity. I suspect that if the AMI decides to drop F-35B, the MMI will demand some more to replace that lost surge reserve.

Makes perfect sense…..

More sites relating to the offer of Ark to the RAN
Aircraft Carrier Name

While it too mentions that Ark was “Reportedly offered”, I can honestly remember that she was, I remember the news papers at the time and how PM Frazer was delighted to have accepted the offer. The deal stagnated over price and time of delivery- HMAS Melbourne couldn’t undergo any further refits or modernisations due to the extreme age of not only the vessel but of it’s componants, besides the Skyhawks were seen as Lacking in terms of fleet defence compared to it’s contemporaries.

But bottom line- I remember Ark being offered to us

Again, as you say, that site only says “reportedly”, so it may or may not have been. Talks may well have taken place, but the fact is that Invincible was formally offered for sale, and Britain broke the deal after the Falklands. Invincible was going to be renamed HMAS Australia I believe.

maybe while her uhhum *chokes* man is cleaning the BBQ he can convince her of it. Or we could always commision her earlobes as LHAs:D:D

I agree in the top brass lacking…well brass. On the flip side images of AUSTRALIA, ADELAIDE and CANBERRA fighting through the sukhois to deliver 3 brigade where they need to be:cool:

While I believe the current government lacks the morale fibre to deploy more forces in battle, I could see them purchasing more hardware to be seen to do something- and please the Unions with more shipbuilding.

Additional Rhinos may be bought short term for a bit of wave the flag’see, she DOES have whats needed to be PM’!!

The good old days:D I have never seen the skyhawk on the Oberon before-is it PS’d?

I’d heard about keeping the Rhinos(even about a suplemental buy in case of delays and because of continuing problems with the legacy hornets), but I’d heard skylarking they would be kept in a rejuvenated RAAF Reserve, with additional Reserve obligations for fast jet pilots after leaving the service.

Lets hope they do it all, and commit to a 3rd LHD, A new AUSTRALIA.

With the woman in Kirribilly- hahahahaha you’re joking right, yes we need a new Australia, but the way the RAN top brass are thinking atm, that won’t ever happen- they’ve become soft! “we don’t want to have the countries namesake destroyed with all hands or involved in some terrible accident on her way to a major relief effort”. There’s a name for them and it starts with P!

Yeah I feel at this point in time the Rhino’s will stay, add to that the fact that the last 12 of the order for 24 are to be wired for Growler lite missions giving the RAAF it’s first taste in EW missions- something it has longed for (we even bought 4 EF-111’s back in the early 90’s, pity they were only for the parts they offered- still some of us hoped that they’d be brought on strength). bottom line- the Rhino’s are here to stay mate. I’ll never forget Riccardo Travern’s performance at Avalon 07, proved how much more power the Super Bug had over the Classics!

As for the pic- no it’s not photo shopped, this predates PS by 20 years, just a very very clever pic done by a photographer back in the 80’s who was trying to save the A-4’s from being sold off.

The good old days:D I have never seen the skyhawk on the Oberon before-is it PS’d?

I’d heard about keeping the Rhinos(even about a suplemental buy in case of delays and because of continuing problems with the legacy hornets), but I’d heard skylarking they would be kept in a rejuvenated RAAF Reserve, with additional Reserve obligations for fast jet pilots after leaving the service.

Lets hope they do it all, and commit to a 3rd LHD, A new AUSTRALIA.

Strategic defence review centre? mark us down for 2 more RAR battalions buddy….and 2 extra commando companys fo 1 cdo

Thanks for the A4 photos, just love them, but still have a soft spot for the red checkerboards!

I say still think that there will be 100+ F-35A/C for the RAAF….75 covers the 71 F/A-18A+s and the other 25 covers the 24 F/A-18Fs with 1&6sqns…….. minimum. a F-35B buy would really need to be of 25(2 sqn of 12 for RAN,1for ARDU) and with our current trend of growth, maybe another 20-40 F-35A/C for new squadrons…. the dream plan of fightertown west at pearce….

We’ll have to chat about army issues elsewhere mate, but our Army needs attention as well- I have some serious issues with our current forces and the army aren’t spared the wrath either! (PM me your email address and we’ll chat privately).

The last 25 to be ordered later were initially to cover the Super Bugs but now there is talk of actually keeping them in service since they are proving to be better than what we hoped for thus the plan to buy the B’s for the navy have come about. The actual savings of keeping the F/A-18F’s in service and not selling them off early would offset conversion costs for new pilots switching mid career, which is why we have this issue atm (Do we buy B’s or not)? As for sqdn levels, it would be more like 2x front line sqdn’s with 8 frames (16 in total) 1x training sqdn and one frame to ARDU

The Good old days- just for you my friend on the far coast

Beat this!

And who said Australians aren’t at the forefront of Naval technology? We even developed a Sub that could fly off a Skyhawk to attack you when and where you least expected it!

:dev2::diablo::dev2::diablo::dev2:

Makes sence to me, but thinking back now, didn’t the MMI wish for more than 22 frames? I remember through the fog that has crept into my brain that at one stage they were looking for up to 40 for the two carriers divided into three sqdn’s- one each for the carriers and one dedicated training sqdn with a lesser amount of planes (something along the ratio of 16:16:8)- maybe I am getting this mixed up with something else yet again

The MMI might like more F-35B, but it’s not going to have two carriers to fly them from. Giuseppe Garibaldi will retire, probably about the same time as the Harriers, leaving it with only Cavour.

GG should be replaced by a STOVL-capable LHD (approved but not yet funded, IIRC), to function as an amphibious assault ship except when Cavour is in repair or refit – i.e. the same model as the Armada with Principe de Asturias & Juan Carlos 1.

22 F-35B is enough to provide a peacetime complement for Cavour, plus training & reserves, with the planned AMI contingent to provide a surge capacity. I suspect that if the AMI decides to drop F-35B, the MMI will demand some more to replace that lost surge reserve.

Strategic defence review centre? mark us down for 2 more RAR battalions buddy….and 2 extra commando companys fo 1 cdo

Thanks for the A4 photos, just love them, but still have a soft spot for the red checkerboards!

I say still think that there will be 100+ F-35A/C for the RAAF….75 covers the 71 F/A-18A+s and the other 25 covers the 24 F/A-18Fs with 1&6sqns…….. minimum. a F-35B buy would really need to be of 25(2 sqn of 12 for RAN,1for ARDU) and with our current trend of growth, maybe another 20-40 F-35A/C for new squadrons…. the dream plan of fightertown west at pearce….

No, the MMI owns the Harriers, & will own some (22 IIRC) F-35B. In addition, the AMI plans to operate some (ca 35-40) F-35B alongside a larger number of F-35A.

AMI F-35B are intended for land-based CAS, expeditionary deployment & amphibious use. Pilots will train on the carriers (STOVL is easier & cheaper than catapults, of course), but probably to a lower level than MMI pilots, e.g. not necessarily qualified for night operations.

There have recently been indications of second thoughts by the AMI, but AFAIK the above is still the plan.

Makes sence to me, but thinking back now, didn’t the MMI wish for more than 22 frames? I remember through the fog that has crept into my brain that at one stage they were looking for up to 40 for the two carriers divided into three sqdn’s- one each for the carriers and one dedicated training sqdn with a lesser amount of planes (something along the ratio of 16:16:8)- maybe I am getting this mixed up with something else yet again