Armidales in trouble?

AeroVironment, Inc. (AV) (NASDAQ:AVAV), a leader in unmanned aircraft systems and efficient electric energy systems, today announced that it has successfully completed sea trials of its Aqua Puma unmanned aircraft system (UAS) for the Royal Australian Navy to explore adding a UAS capability to the Navy’s new Armidale class patrol boats.

Another Australian Defence project gone wrong!
I am finding hard to remember the last Australian military project that went smoothly!
We can not keep this up and stay credible.

Pioneer

Why not? We do. Just.

It also plays to one of the core idea’s with the Armidales. They are not being built for a 20-25 year life. 10-15 is more likely, and the RAN is planning to replace them with another local design, short-life vessel.
Unicorn

Quite sure I read something about a design life of 20 years though. Let’s return to this question in 2015…

The boats may be made of high grade aluminium, however thats pretty standard for high speed vessels now (the Incats for example).

It also plays to one of the core idea’s with the Armidales. They are not being built for a 20-25 year life. 10-15 is more likely, and the RAN is planning to replace them with another local design, short-life vessel.

The thinking is that major mid-life overhauls and such are wasted money on vessels such as these, when for about three – four times the cost of a major service life extension overhaul you can replace the boat.

This means the fleet age is kept down, fewer issues with fatigue life and regular work for shipyards in Australia that also have commercial work to keep them going between Navy contracts.

Probably a wise decision as patrol boats like the Armidales are not high-cost, high-technology programs, especially not by comparison to major warships or mine warfare vessels.

Unicorn

Well thanks guys for thinking of me on this matter but Unicorn has summed it up in one hit, it’s just over reaction on the publics behalf which was hyped up by the media who don’t really know anything otherwise they would not have reported it.

ALL new projects have some sort of teething problems and this is Armidale’s.

I don’t see how they can be called too small as they are double the size of the Fremantle class. Sure they have less armourment but as was pointed out to me, the 25mm gun can knock out a rudder quicker and with more accuracy than the old 40/60 (doesn’t mean I still don’t think they are under armed just that I now have a deeper respect for what the gun can do).

The whole tender process was a bit odd as was this company gaining the contract. I personally know someone who was on the board dealing with the Patrol Boat replacement tenders and he was opposed to this boat, he said that something very strange was afoot with the deal as in the last few months he was locked out of the process- at the core of his (and my) concerns was the fact that these ships were made of Aluminium Alloy- a very very soft metal and not the best for high sea states, now considering the Aussie market had an abundance of this metal that they couldn’t get rid of on the international market, you see where the concerns start to play out!

Still, I know others who are serving on these boats and they love them, they say that these boats are ideal for the role and that all the rubbishing of them is unfounded- I reserve my judgement.

The procedures followed with the fleet wide stoppage on their use is the best thing and does indeed stem from the Westralia incident. We have seen it implimented on the Collins class, the Anzacs and now the Armi’s- best to play it safe than to loose more lives. The problem is a minor one and should see the fleet back up and running within a month.

I don’t think its bad thing the way the RAN has acted.

How long does it take to change a fuel pump? A few hours? A day? Hulls are not going to be tied up in dry dock for long periods. They acted before an accident happened for the safety of the crew.

Its a fault that could happen in any project. Even new cars have issues like this, a faulty part is identified, recalls, quickly fixed etc. While it will stuff up operations for maybe the next week or so, thats a problem with having a single type of hull. The mine hunters and the fremantles will fill in during this short period and still be effective.

The Defence statement on the subject

OPERATIONAL RESTRICTIONS FOR ARMIDALE CLASS PATROL BOATS

Defence is investigating the recurrence of Armidale Class Patrol Boat fuel system defects, in conjunction with the prime contractor Defence Maritime Services, the shipbuilder Austal, and the engine manufacturer MTU Detroit Diesel.

The Maritime Commander Australia, Rear Admiral Davyd Thomas has re-established operational restrictions for the Navy’s Armidale Class Patrol Boats following a recurrence of a potential safety issue with the ship’s main engine fuel system.

Similar restrictions were introduced in September 2006 and the ships were returned to operational service in October 2006 following extensive checks of the fuel systems in all ships of the class.

Despite an extensive investigation into the likely cause and redesign of engineering controls, continued water contamination in the main engine fuel system has led to pump failures, hence the implementation of further restrictions by the Maritime Commander.

Defence’s priority is to ensure the safety of the vessels and crew.

Rear Admiral Thomas said a recurrence of a problem with water contamination in the fuel system was very disappointing but the safety of personnel remained the first priority.

“We are taking prudent safety measures until further investigations are complete and appropriate modifications are made to the fuel system,” he said.

Contingency plans have been implemented to ensure that sufficient assets are available to meet operational tasking.

Unicorn

Thanks for the info Unicorn, that was what I was looking for… actual info on what is going on.

Actually, it is a relatively minor matter from a hardware point-of-view (at least with the pump).

As a Safety issue, it is urgent, but the fix should be done fairly quickly and easily.

From what has since been posted on the forum I found that on, this is the second water-contamination issue that has come up with these boats… which does merit further investigation as to the root causes, but the pump replacement should get them back in service soon.

A few points.

1. It’s a safety stand down. There was an issue with water entering the fuel system, which effected the fuel pump system. This had the effect of causing seals to deteriorate, one pump’s seals did so and sprayed fuel into the engine compartment. The incident was handled according to new protocols brought into play after the Westralia incident and no damage or injuries occured. Rather than risk another such incident the RAN brought the Armidales in while the fix was applied.

2. The issue is not ‘Another Australian Defence project gone wrong!’, its a minor issue involving a pump as supplied by the engine manufacturer. It is covered under the warranty and will be replaced with a new, modified unit at the manufacturers cost.

I would hardly say that withdrawing a whole class of ships is a minor issue, irrespective of warranty. That’s seven hulls the RAN won’t have available for the next xx weeks/months.

Incat has a design for a 98m cat which on the web site is decal for us coast guard.

Has the ability of landing one heli, decking two more, and hangers for two.

The incat design doesn’t seem to really fit, and doesn’t seem to be designed for rough sea states. It would be fast and would be able to operate chinooks and large helos. (large rescues?) I don’t think they will come up with something else.

The tenix seems the best compromise. It would help fill the small void between the armidales and the anzacs. It can even be upgraded for duty around the anartic and ice.

I would still like to see the Armidale order reduced from 14 to 12, and a small order of OPV’s made, 6 -8. Either the Austal OPV or the Tenix 85m. Unless Incat can come up with something better.

A few points.

1. It’s a safety stand down. There was an issue with water entering the fuel system, which affected the fuel pump system. This had the effect of causing seals to deteriorate, one pump’s seals did so and sprayed fuel into the engine compartment. The incident was handled according to new protocols brought into play after the Westralia incident and no damage or injuries occured. Rather than risk another such incident the RAN brought the Armidales in while the fix was applied.

2. The issue is not ‘Another Australian Defence project gone wrong!’, its a minor issue involving a pump as supplied by the engine manufacturer. It is covered under the warranty and will be replaced with a new, modified unit at the manufacturers cost.

3. The Armidale class are not too small for Australia’s needs. They are designed to operate in Australia’s 200km EEZ, for which they are well suited. They replaced the Fremantle class, which did the job for more than 20 years, and they in turn had replaced the even smaller Attack boats.

They are not designed to operate down near Heard Island in the Great Southern Ocean, they would not even be considered for that role, that’s not what their intended role is. The Australia Government is looking at an OPV-style vessel to operate down in the GSE, and Tenix has proposed a version of the Project Protector 85m OPV, but no decision has yet been made. If they are ordered, they may be operated by the Navy, Australian Customs, Australian Fisheries or the mythical Australian Coast Guard that former opposition leader Kim Beazley had the hots for.

Jesus guys, talk about an over-reaction.

Unicorn

I think the Armidale classes were too small and not practical under armed for Australian needs anyway.
For the type of seas, and the range they are expected to operate, I think a small corvette design would be far more practical and useful.

Pioneer

Another Australian Defence project gone wrong!
I am finding hard to remember the last Australian military project that went smoothly!
We can not keep this up and stay credible.

Pioneer