As we come up to 11am this morning

It no longer follows, per se, that where the UK goes so too does the Commonwealth.

And rightly so.

But I have to say that in the (impossible) event of a similar situation re-occuring I’d far rather be standing shoulder to shoulder with a Kiwi, Canuck or Aussie than their modern day European replacements.

(Disclaimer: This post is meant as a tribute to the Commonwealth troops of days gone by, not a political statement or a jibe at our fellow Europeans. I know many other Commonwealth countries were involved but to list them all would take too long on a working day morning – you are not forgotten either)

Moggy

I must say I’m very taken with this. Thank you Moggy for jolting our memories. And Dave for, as ever, being on the boil re. the Kiwi contribution.

My uncle was one of the many from NZ (from the Commonwealth at large) to join up, to journey to Canada where a superb training infrastructure was in place (that must have taken quite a bit of setting up and would be an interesting thread in its own right) then on to the UK and ultimately to operations. Meanwhile (it seems to me, happy to be corrected on this) we had a Pacific front not very far from our doorsteps and an interesting “I will if you will” sort of circumstance came about where most NZ (and AUS?) forces joined the Allies in Europe and the USA supplied the backbone of the fighting in the Pacific.

More recently Australia (more accurately the Howard “liberal” government) has made much of joining the “coalition of the willing” whilst NZ and Canada have adopted more reserved positions. It no longer follows, per se, that where the UK goes so too does the Commonwealth.

Thanks again Moggy for the thoughtful prod.

Thank you from across ‘the Pond’ Moggy…

Any of us fortunate enough to enjoy our current freedom – standards of living and way of life – certainly cannot begin to comprehend the moods and actions of our respective populations and governments in those early days of September ’39.

I believe that I can honestly state that IF such circumstances were to arise today, that public opinion and reaction would not be the same. Our hearts, minds and souls are indeed indebted to those who rose – with little or no encouragement – to face an aggressor, for ‘King and Country!’.

Imagine, what would/could have happened, if Britain and done nothing in ’39!

My nearest relative story I can recount is that of my uncle who joined the RCAF and served as an instructor within the BCATP (instructing mostly Naval pilot candiates) until he finally received orders to a manning depot in the UK shortly before hostilities ended.

It is indeed these moments from our history that we should learn from and never forget.. as the old addage goes (please forgive any paraphasing) ‘those who forget their history, are doomed to repeat it’.

We all owe it to ourselves to thank a Veteran… not only today, but at every opportunity!

JJ

Thanks for the reminder Moggy and to JDK for the text of the speech.

As Moggy says (and I know its often the scene you see in movies, dramas etc), but you can just imagine familes across the UK gathered around their vintage radio sets listening.

Quite a day I should imagine.

Cheers

Paul

Indeed

Moggy could never forget New Zealand’s contribution living so close to the former RAF Feltwell, the one time home of 75 (NZ) Squadron RAF.

Regards,

kev35

“you can imagine what a bitter blow it is to me”,

After his years of appeasement I would guess it was a bitter blow. However those few years bought some time for modernisation of at least some of the armed services.

If war had happened at the time of the Munich Crisis, Britain would have been fighting with types such as the Fury and a few Hurricanes. Chamberlain was probably mistaken in his acts of appeasement, though through this the greater victor was achieved.

Unlike many wars, including WW1 IMHO WW2 was a neccessary war which had to be fought to rid the World of a greater evil.

when I hear those words “you can imagine what a bitter blow it is to me”, I always think what a bitter blow it must of been to all those who actually had to go and fight the war.

Politicians only ever play war games, the repercussions of which are loss of governmental position (at worse); how does the saying go ; old men plan wars for young men to fight?

Indeed. I have given it several thoughts today, and especially thinking from my own country’s angle of families who’d been through the First World War and were now to send their boys to the other side of the world for a second time.

At 9.00pm on Sunday 3rd of September 1939 NZ Time, the New Zealand Deputy Prime Minister declared war upon Germany. This was of course due to time zone difference, simultaneous with Britain – though the two hours difference is odd as Britain was not then on double-daylight savings, so I can only assume we declared war first due to the time to get the message to Germany?

The next day, September 4th, 1939, Prime Minister Michael Joseph Savage broadcast on the wireless across NZ from his sickbed (he was dying from cancer, hence not declaring the paperwork himself) with the speech which was about as brief as Chamberlain’s statement. This is the first paragraph in transcript online (I cannot find the second half, but have it on tape somewhere)

“Both with gratitude for the past and confidence in the future, we range ourselves fearlessly beside Britain. Where she goes we go, and where she stands we stand.”

When Hitler heard NZ had entered the war, he scoffed and remarked “They’re only a bunch of farmboys, what could they do?”

How wrong he was, over 100,000 soldiers, 60,000 airmen and countless thousands of sailors and merchantmen, plus the thousands of farmers who supplied Britain with food and woool, etc, showed him what a country of just 1 million people and what a few ‘farm boys’ could do. They did this country, the Empire and the Allies very proud.

Lest we forget.

If i may make so bold….they did the world proud too…

Having visited Durnbach War cemetary recently the number of graves is quite moving the fact that , without for one moment taking anything from the other Nationalities there ,Canadians ,New Zealanders & Australians are there in such large numbers so far from home is at first very moving and then inspireational .

I agree with both of you there. We owe those brave men a debt of gratitude for our freedom today which we can never hope to repay (contrary to the wishes of our government I will not forget that).

“Both with gratitude for the past and confidence in the future, we range ourselves fearlessly beside Britain. Where she goes we go, and where she stands we stand.”

There are many of us here who don’t forget the contribution from (what was then) ‘The Empire’.

Moggy

Indeed. I have given it several thoughts today, and especially thinking from my own country’s angle of families who’d been through the First World War and were now to send their boys to the other side of the world for a second time.

At 9.00pm on Sunday 3rd of September 1939 NZ Time, the New Zealand Deputy Prime Minister Peter Fraser declared war upon Germany. This was of course due to time zone difference, simultaneous with Britain – though the two hours difference is odd as Britain was not then on double-daylight savings, so I can only assume we declared war first due to the time to get the message to Germany?

The next day, September 4th, 1939, Prime Minister Michael Joseph Savage broadcast on the wireless across NZ from his sickbed (he was dying from cancer, hence not declaring the paperwork himself) with the speech which was about as brief as Chamberlain’s statement. This is the first paragraph in transcript online (I cannot find the second half, but have it on tape somewhere)

“Both with gratitude for the past and confidence in the future, we range ourselves without fear beside Britain. Where she goes we go, and where she stands we stand.”

When Hitler heard NZ had entered the war, he scoffed and remarked “They’re only a bunch of farmboys, what could they do?”

How wrong he was, over 100,000 soldiers, 60,000 airmen and countless thousands of sailors and merchantmen, plus the thousands of farmers who supplied Britain with food and wool, etc, showed him what a country of just 1 million people and what a few ‘farm boys’ could do. They did this country, the Empire and the Allies very proud.

Lest we forget.

Here’s your answer Moggy 11.15 BST

Great link with a recording of the speech, complete with authentic crackles.

Thx

Moggy

With what is now going on in Afghanistan ( changes to ROE etc.) and the blunt warning in today’s electronic Telegraph of whats likely to be coming up in the U.K., I have an uneasy feeling in my stomach anyway.

Here’s your answer Moggy 11.15 BST

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/september/3/newsid_3493000/3493279.stm

As Moggy said just reading it on screen evokes a powerful image of the time. I can even imagine the crackly sound of the radio (sorry wireless). As well I should, we still had one until I was about 14

Whenever I think of that speech, I think of the first episode of Piece of Cake…

….annnnd cue ‘False Alarm No.1 London’….

Even reading those words on screen conjures up the image of families gathered around the old fashioned wireless in their front room listening intently.

Quite possibly that is a false image, placed there by ‘war film cliche no 27’, but none the less it is a powerful one.

Moggy

“This morning the British Ambassador in Berlin handed the German Government a final note stating that, unless we heard from them by 11 o’clock that they were prepared at once to withdraw their troops from Poland, a state of war would exist between us. I have to tell you now that no such undertaking has been received, and that consequently this country is at war with Germany.

You can imagine what a bitter blow it is to me that all my long struggle to win peace has failed. Yet I cannot believe that there is anything more, or anything different, that I could have done, and that would have been more successful… We have a clear conscience, we have done all that any country could do to establish peace, but a situation in which no word given by Germany’s ruler could be trusted, and no people or country could feel themselves safe, had become intolerable… Now may God bless you all and may He defend the right. For it is evil things that we shall be fighting against, brute force, bad faith, injustice, oppression, and persecution. And against them I am certain that the right will prevail.”