Assistance with identifying a Browning 0.303 machine gun

The gun was x-rayed last year, and it turned out there was a round in the breech! Unfortunately that meant it had to be destroyed. Thanks for the offer though.

This just boils my ****. Some Govt official needs a swift kick in the squishy bits for this mentality. It’s not exactly rocket science to deal with a live round in a corroded firearm & make it safe.

A 20mm case would be something to ponder about. I think the British 20mm rounds were ball so the projectile should not pose a problem however only an X-ray would confirm it.

I saw a few Tempest Hispanos at Rytons (recovered from the Humber Estuary if I recall correctly) a few years back that Freddie had sat in Diesal for months trying to get the breech blocks to move. He got them out in the end after 65 years of corrosion had been removed.

The guy that has done deacs for me has regularly dealt with that situation in many cases, a 303 round isn’t a problem, a 20mm round would.

That’s a shame, I’ve made safe a few relics by drilling the chamber to remove the powder of live rounds. All done in a safe environment (I am an Armourer and EOD operator) so no warnings required.

Peter Laidler at the SASC collection had the powder from a live round found in a Lee Enfield (from the sunken Lancastria) tested and it was found to be as good as when it was produced!!

Do you have any more photos? Any of the whole gun or section of?

Hi m3bobby,

The gun was x-rayed last year, and it turned out there was a round in the breech! Unfortunately that meant it had to be destroyed. Thanks for the offer though.

Unless the divers get a lucky break one time they have an opportunity to go down, I guess it’ll forever remain a mystery as to which Hampden this is.

If your in Lincolnshire and still need to ID the gun then get in touch as I can take a look.

I know this thread is now a year old but for what it’s worth, the broad arrow mark is actually a 10% check marking meaning that the item is one of the 10% of that item inspected and gauged. The other 90% only received a casual inspection.

You would need to check the rear dust cover behind the top cover for the serial number. The BSA logo appears to be on the barrel extension so is no indication that the gun is BSA, many parts were mixed up by the armourers as they never really matched parts.

If you find and VSM marks that would indicate Vickers Sons and Maxim, SD would indicate Standard Motors and B would indicate BSA. The BSA piled arms logo was dispensed with in 1940 as a frill.

Happy New Year all,

Just bumping the post for visibility. Thanks in advance for any assistance.

FF

James, Richard,

Thanks for the info, it all helps in some way!

FF

Forestfan. Glad you found that thread from which I have borrowed these pics to save everyone scrolling through it.
Might just solve the case. :D:D
http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?129788-3D-CAD-RAF-Browning-303/page3

It looks as if you might have to do some rust removing or x raying to find these numbers.

Seems that they did mark the year.

These marks are the proof marks and I think the round one is the inspectors mark.
looks to be paint, so guess you would not find them.

I am now thinking that the BE 387 is actually BS 387 and is a viewers number as stated in James’s post, or a part number.

Could you explain the markings?

FF

Hi – the attached may be of some help, it’s from AP 1614C.

Cheers
James

[ATTACH=CONFIG]242519[/ATTACH]

Surely the BESA mg was the 7.92 mg mostly used in AFVs, not a/c?
Mike

Bumped again!

I’m not saying that I’m a 100% right, but the fact is that the numbers are there.
They were put there for a reason, yet no one seems to know what they mean.
Browning 0.303 Machine gun and the BESA machine gun were both made by BSA.
At the moment I cannot find out how the production lines of these guns worked or what marks were put on.
But still looking. 😀

Well, BSA and BESA are two different things. If BSA wanted to mark their name they simply used BSA or the piled arms logo. Inspection stamps are usually small and single strike. I have never seen the month and year coding you are suggesting on firearms, doesn’t mean it didn’t happen though!

Come to think of it, the Bren gun parts vocab numbers are often BE and four numbers. Coincidence or not ?

Why?

Had a bit more thought on this number and have come to the conclusion that it is a final inspection stamp.

BE is used to donate that it was made by BSA sometimes referred as BESA.
387 either the inspector no or referring that it was made in July 1938.
Need to see other examples such as 39 40 or other to confirm.

That’s four assertions which are unlikely or untrue!

Had a bit more thought on this number and have come to the conclusion that it is a final inspection stamp.

BE is used to donate that it was made by BSA sometimes referred as BESA.
387 either the inspector no or referring that it was made in July 1938.
Need to see other examples such as 39 40 or other to confirm.

Ah That explains it. So the markings which we see there, are not really markings on the metal, but sand and rust which has stuck there after the other metal piece which has the marking stamped into has been removed. This would make the WD arrow correct and the B E no 387 possible an order no.
The case continues 😉

Afternoon gents,

BE 387 appears in 3 places, the side plates and breech block. Just to confirm, the stamp that you’ve reversed (Pic 2) actually does appear reversed in reality, it wasn’t an issue with the photo.

Thanks for your attention.

FF