Atheism

Religions are man made. They often get it wrong, sometimes very wrong. Their failures are human failures. But how does that reflect on the existance of a higher reality, God?

Think of something which claims to have all the answers to those worrying questions about life – organised religion. No need to supply proof since we are assured that we cannot comprehend what ‘god’ can do, so it is easy to make this ‘supreme being’ responsible for all the apparent good in the world and, in an effort to make mankind fear or worship this ‘god’, claim that all the bad things are caused by man.
Man causes war – but man can fight on the side of one religious faction or the other and both sides god will smile on them as the rightious. Man causes crops to fail – they are all gods creation but obviously they were left in our care so we must have failed god with our lack of faith, whether it actually rained or not…:rolleyes: And as if they isn’t already enough racism and political division in the world man also causes religious hatred – so all those preachers/mullahs/rabid religious fanatics screaming that unbelievers are going to hell are not, despite their claims to the contrary, doing gods work?
To misquote something that used to be seen on gun fanatics t-shirts: kill god and let man sort it out. – Nermal

Who mentioned “God” in the first place? Men.

So if men had not spoken of God, God would not exist? So when no-one hears a tree fall in the forest, it didn’t really fall at all????

Isaac Asimov made a claim that the most practical and dramatic victory of science over religion occurred in the seventeenth century when churches quietly began to put up lightning conductors. So much for their belief in the will of god.

No one expects the Spanish Inquisition…!

Flood

The Spanish Inquisition is a typical example of how politicians use (abuse) religion to reach their goals. The newly created Spanish state needed to take care of its internal ennemies first. The Spanish Inquisition was not about witches and magicians, it was about people who opposed the rule from Madrid.

Religion, said Karl Marx, is the opium of the people (um, and/or Lenin?).
Sigmund Freud said religion is nothing but the result of a neurosis.
Unknown – religion is at the source of nearly all the worlds problems. – Nermal

But where is Karl Marx’s legacy? Stalin’s Gulag, or the 1930’s murder of peasants in the Ukraine perhaps? In hindsight, wasn’t Marxism simply the opium of the arrogant, yet stunningly naive, intellectuals of the 19th and early 20th centuries.

And Frued?

Religions are man made. They often get it wrong, sometimes very wrong. Their failures are human failures. But how does that reflect on the existance of a higher reality, God?

Isaac Asimov made a claim that the most practical and dramatic victory of science over religion occurred in the seventeenth century when churches quietly began to put up lightning conductors. So much for their belief in the will of god.

No one expects the Spanish Inquisition…!

Flood

I did not.

I said that atheism is a religious position. There’s a subtle but important difference.

Grey Area- The point Im getting at is you said atheism is a religous belief, which implys a will to believe you are correct against those who appose your belief. So I dont think you have to be anit-god or anti-religion to be athiest.

Read what I said again, Mixtec.

That isn’t what I said.

I disagree, Viper.

Atheism is not an absence of belief, it is actually a belief that there is no such thing as a superior being or beings.

In the absence of certainties, all religious positions are a matter of faith and atheism is every bit as much a religious position as any other belief..

I disagree Grey Area, I dont think you have to be against the belief in god to be an athiest. I dont believe in the Loch Ness monster, but dont feel any need to actively uphold my position against those who do believe in it. I wouldnt accept being labeled as agnostic about the existance of the Loch Ness monster either because I do have an opinion on the matter.

A religion is a system of beliefs, while usually associated with
supernatural powers, god, etc. it doesn’t have to mean that.

For example: A people that believe the sun gives life, and the earth
and the sky and wind etc. are all worshipped. That is their belief, their
religion.

What difference is there if you believe in modern science to such a
degree, that you believe it to be responsible for all things? These
people saw the sun give life, it gets cold when it’s away. That’s
scientific observation. They believed things based on what they knew,
just like you athiests do. what they had was religion, and what you
believe as an atheist, is also a religion. A faith in science and the laws
of physics as we understand them.

You just don’t believe in God. For all we know, god might simply BE
the natural order of things.

I disagree, Viper.

Atheism is not an absence of belief, it is actually a belief that there is no such thing as a superior being or beings.

In the absence of certainties, all religious positions are a matter of faith and atheism is every bit as much a religious position as any other belief..

Ohh give me a break. Add Nietzsche too. Religion is dead! As if the trio Marx, Nietzsche and Freud have invented everything. As a matter of fact, they destroyed most of it? These phrases are already so shallow I’ve seen people wearing them on T-shirts.
*************

I like a cartoon I saw a few weeks ago (can’t remember where)
A teacher had written on the blackboard:

“God is dead.”
– Nietzsche

Then, later, underneath it is written:

“Nietzsche is dead”
– God

Religion isn’t the cause or root of conflict – it’s an excuse. People DO
use religion as a crutch all to ooften. Any of the worlds religious
conflicts would be there, just the same, without religion. People have
fought over the middle east before there were Jews and Muslims. If
we were all atheists, there’d be just as many wars, suffering and
conflict.

Atheism is no belief? Yes it is. You believe there is no god or
supreme being. you believe that the earth, space, stars and life itself
was a result of coincedence, interaction of particles within the laws of
physics in a random space. There used to be infinitly nothing, then it
began. Given infinite time, anything could simply “happen” within the
laws of physics.
You have to put a lot of faith in the laws of physics, chemistry and
astronomy to actually believe that the universe can be created, and life
can result without a higher power shaping things.

What bugs me is people trying to make religion a science. Scientific
creationism is about as perfect an oxymoron as can be – unless they
were taking a scientific approach to proving creationism as a
pseudoscience.

Want to believe in creationism, fine. But don’t try to convince yourself
through science – if you can’t believe it out of faith, don’t dig for clues –
you’ll find none.

Same for atheism. Don’t try to explain it as fact, for it is just as
unprovable as believing in God. When you state your beliefs and
opinions that there is no god, and nothing after death, you are acting in
the exact manner as someone preaching that there IS a God, and there
IS an afterlife. Preaching something for which there is no scientific
way of proving!

Ohh give me a break. Add Nietzsche too. Religion is dead! As if the trio Marx, Nietzsche and Freud have invented everything. As a matter of fact, they destroyed most of it? These phrases are already so shallow I’ve seen people wearing them on T-shirts.

Religion, said Karl Marx, is the opium of the people (um, and/or Lenin?).
Sigmund Freud said religion is nothing but the result of a neurosis.
Unknown – religion is at the source of nearly all the worlds problems. – Nermal

atheism was not “invented” yet.

Opposition to religion is as old as religion. Or do monkeys believe in Christ?

Viper, Hitler wanted to get a grip on the Church, he wanted to appoint bisschops etc. But that doesn’t change the fact that he was not a christian, he actually hated christianity because it had the element of “forgiveness”. There have been bischops in the RCC who cooperate with Hitler, but the ideas of both christianity and nazism are completelly different.

Viper, before the Englightment there didn’t exist atheism. It’s a new phenomenon. Some guy wrote a book on Rabellais for example (famous french writer, pantagruel) and concluded he could not have been an atheist, because at that time, atheism was not “invented” yet. Even most of the enlightened philosophes were not anti-christianity. Voltaire, Montesqieu were all christians.

And Religion has a great impact. Maybe not today, but the way today’s world is shaped was influenced by Religion.

I also agree with alot of the ideas from many religions. Thou shalt not kill is a good idea. Treat others as you would like others to treat you is another cracker. Unfortuately those people who claim to be religious seem to have a huge problem actually practising what they preach, which I do have a problem with. They also tend to judge others by the brand of religion they have chosen.

Of course a lot of what is claimed to be religious problems are not really religious problems. I know several families that live here who came from Northern Ireland who actually don’t care what religion their neighbours are and they don’t go door knocking to “save” anyone every sunday.

Cool and trendy? Yeah that sounds exactly like me. Not.

Well, I’m not bound on saving everyone’s life too :D. Most catholics don’t do that actually.

Just curious Ben, what exactly would you like to see happen? Because in the US religion has become very strong lately, but it really hasnt improved anything, if anything it just hides the bad people do. Humans are just animals on this earth trying to survive like any other animal, anyone who thinks there above that is living in a fantasy. Whether god exists or not, religion is an ingrained part of the human mind due to mans fear of the unknown. Modern religions reflect the changes of historical improvements in social order and allow people to be more self reliant and social reliant. But becoming “religious” has always been a waste, history proves that, even current world religions of christianity, buddism and hinduism teach that.

Well, first of all there’s a difference between the catholic and reformist churches. Though this might suprise you, catholicism is in all aspects more open and leaves more choises to individual thinking. I’m not saying this, a Jewish professor who taught me the basic principles of Jewish thinking. I don’t think it’s a “waste”. Sure, I don’t believe in all what the Bible says, but it’s an important literaty document (and for the Jews even a historical document). What I would like to see is people stop bashing the church as it’s the roots of all evil. They refer to the crusades, the nazi’s without any other historical background and conclude that the church must be evil, forgetting some minor details that it was most of the times Kings/Emperors that went on crusade for other reasons besides religion, that the RCC abolished slavery in the Middle Ages … Or the Church burned witches? Well, can’t say that for the entire world, but at least in the Netherlands it were the Spaniards who did this. Those witches/magicians were most of the times rebellious people who opposed the rule from Madrid for example.

And to say Religion is not important. Well let’s have a look at the “secular EU”, pretending it can build only on the pilars of our Ancient civilisation and enlightment, forgetting our Judeo-Christian values. Like it or not, the Judeo-Christian values have shaped Europe for more than 1000 years, and the French Revolution didn’t make an end to people believing, only made an end to the worldly politics of the RCC. The constitution failed, because the european leaders found religion in a 21Th century constitution backward.

Look, I don’t want the church and state melted together again. Ohh God no, I’m more of a christian humanist. I think Christianity can offer a social model which is an alternative to the individualist-liberal thinking and the cold world of socialism/marxism.

First of all I would like to say that religious beliefs are personal and I don’t think those who have different beliefs are nutters or even wrong. If it helps you sleep at night then who am I to rock the boat?

I also agree with alot of the ideas from many religions. Thou shalt not kill is a good idea. Treat others as you would like others to treat you is another cracker. Unfortuately those people who claim to be religious seem to have a huge problem actually practising what they preach, which I do have a problem with. They also tend to judge others by the brand of religion they have chosen.

Of course a lot of what is claimed to be religious problems are not really religious problems. I know several families that live here who came from Northern Ireland who actually don’t care what religion their neighbours are and they don’t go door knocking to “save” anyone every sunday.

I know it’s “cool” and “trendy” these days to badmouth the Church or any Religion

Cool and trendy? Yeah that sounds exactly like me. Not.