Aussie MBT replacement

RE: Aussie MBT replacement

>Maybe Aussie could wait for the new generation armoured
>fighting vehicle(low profile tank chasis with very small
>turret)??

The smartest thing said in this discussion so far. The MGS program which currently involves the LAV III is – IMO – what we should be looking at in future. Not heavily armoured, but fast, very transportable, and packs the necessary firepower (105mm) if required. I just don’t believe that we NEED another large tank, esepcially if we continue to deploy to o/s operations while we under-cut our amphibious/transport capability.

Regards, Glenn.

RE: Aussie MBT replacement

Maybe Aussie could wait for the new generation armoured fighting vehicle(low profile tank chasis with very small turret)??

RE: Aussie MBT replacement

This is a good topic, the Leopards are getting on and as has been pointed out just recently in the press lately, they have no night fighting capability.

Personally my choices are confined to the areas where they are going to be opperated. If it’s going to be confined to the Top End, then the Merkava IV would be the best mainly because it is designed for that type of terrain. But if it’s going to stay around the coastal subv tropical areas where it’s popualted then I’d be going for the Challenger.

As for HMAS’s Kanimbla and Manoora as well as HMAS Tobruk, they can carry MBT’s which is the main requirement for them. The LPA’s can only carry 7 MBT’s and LST 15, those are max compliment. The Army is committed to an MBT force and they are now seriously looking for a new tank, but it will be at least 2010 before we get them. Nice to see we have an old Pongo amongst us 😛 LONG LIVE THE PUSSERS 😛 😛

Give me coffee and no-one gets hurt!

RE: Aussie MBT replacement

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 08-10-02 AT 02:27 AM (GMT)]The NZ army hasn’t used proper tanks for quite some time.
We used the Scorpion light tanks for a while during the 70s,80s,and 90s but now we have gone to LAVs to replace our light tanks and M113 APCs.
While lacking armour these wheeled vehicles have good mobility and reasonable firepower for peacekeeping missions in places with good road networks.
We have two types, one is the traditional APC, while the other has heavier armament and will not carry troops.
They are light and they don’t take 6 months to ship to the place you want them.

Regarding the Leopards the Leopard 1 was designed along the Soviet lines of speed and firepower and less emphasis on armour protection.
Consequently their armour was not that good, especially now.
The Leopard 2A6 is a much more powerful beast that has a very formidible gun (it and the leclerc use the 120mm L55 smoothbore, compared to the 120mm L44 gun used by the Abrams, and the Merkava.)

The only reason the Leopards were not used in DS was that the countries that use the Leopard 1 did not contribute tanks… the major suppliers of tanks to DS was the US and Britian. (ie M1A2, M1A1, and Challenger 1)

RE: Aussie MBT replacement

Your question is a good one!

I agree that we need to replace the Leopard, but with what!

As a former Gunner(RAA) we also need to replace our towed guns with self-propelled!

Todays tanks are agile,strong & fast with a high emphasis on tech systems.This country needs a product that is proven.Preferably in flat desert-type terrain. The Leopard was designed to fight a NATO style war in Europe. That is why we didn’t see any during the Gulf War.

Australia’s true & only threat is to the North, not Pucka in Victoria. Therefore do we need MBT’s or a highly mobile force of self-propelled weaponry?

In all the events Aussie troops have been involved in since VIetnam, Troopers & Gunners have had little involvement. Our tanks have never been deployed O/S nor have our guns(despite active patrolling by Infantry in East Timor) have suffered the same fate. They are after all ‘offensive weapons’ and Australians hate offending people.

Food for thought? The F111 is older than the Leopard but is still at the forefront of strike bombers.

Maybe we can upgrade the systems, up the armament etc!

RE: Aussie MBT replacement

Garry

I think we have the vessels to carry MBT’s, they’re the two former USN rust-buckets I have referred to on other posts (Kinimbla and Manoora, I think they are called.) I don’t know if both can convey tanks, but as they were purchased for troop and supply vessels, I imagine tank-carrying would have been on the specification list when they were purchased.

Aussie Force

I didn’t know the Leopards were up for disposal, although I suppose they are getting a bit old now.

I know nothing of the current MBT’s, nor of the specification which would apply for Australian service. Perhaps the Yanks have some second hand stuff they can flog us, to make the picture complete? (Ships, Bones? and MBT – perhaps a couple of Pattons or Pershings???)

Regards

Wombat

RE: Aussie MBT replacement

Main Battle Tank.

Used instead of the old concept of light, medium, and heavy tanks.

The Leopard 1 was a relatively light tank, while the M1A2 weights about 68 tons… both are MBTs.

Well I think if you are going to get into scraps or seriously participate in peace keeping ops then the odd MBT around is very good.

Which tanks would you consider?
Most modern western tanks are getting too heavy, while the Australian government has shown it is not interested in Eastern weapons (ie Sukhoi).

Good tanks I can think of off the top of my head are the Leclerc, the Leopard 2A6, the Challenger 2, the M1A3, the Merkava 4, from countries that I think Australia would buy from…
The Leopard 2A6 and the Leclerc have the most powerful guns and are not too heavy, but then the other three options are also very good vehicles… as long as you have a ship that can take them…

By my figures th weights are 54,500kg for Leclerc, 59,700kg for the Leopard 2A6, 62,500kg for the Challenger 2, 68,000kg for M1A2 (I don’t have any figures for the M1A3 but its’ major “innovation” is modular armour… just like the Merkava 4, and Leclerc, and Leopard 2A6), and about 60,000kg for Merkava 4 (estimate).

RE: Aussie MBT replacement

I’d like too if you explain what MBT stands for!!