Aussie mockup to save

just quietly drifting off on a little tangent ..

IP’s on warbirdz are only banned if they are in a range that is common for spamming. If you want to read the forum and your IP is banned let me know and I can fix it.

The way to tell if it’s a forum IP ban is to check to see if the website is available. If the website isn’t available that’s an issue with the host as we have recently moved hosts.

having said that, i’ll allow you to return to normal programming now …

In case any of you didn’t notice as nobody seems to have commented; it looks like Mr Harrier has done you a favour there chaps.

Well Done that man (DT).

Anon.

Yes a very big thankyou to David for his support and action in withdrawing the auction, to give us time to finalise our plans and confirm transport costs.

and without David the A20 Mock-up would not still be existing to be considered for return to Australia in anycase, so his actions deserving recognition are more than just that done recently, and includes saving the cockpit when disposed by the ATC many years ago, keeping it under cover, and more recently re-uniting the nose with the cockpit.

Hopefully we will be able to conclude his efforts with a successful return to Australia and preservation here.

Regards

Mark Pilkington

699 posts on the forum would clearly show he hasn’t just appeared because of the discussion on the item in question. Good call btw Dave let’s hope it works its way down under.

the A20 wooden mockup has led a sad life in the UK, but been under the protection of an enthusiast in recent years, and a number of Warbirdz forumites have decided its worth bringing home given its availability on ebay.

Mark Pilkington

Member XV806 – Mr Harrier – on this forum presumably (from reading this thread)

Richard

And I thought I’d sinned too!!?? Glenn sorted it, thanks.

My comment, why would you bother, relates to the fact that it was a failed project that was never going to be built because of a design fault. I really can’t see why you’d save it, especially as it was the cockpit which was the problem.

G’day 😉

It is in poor condition, only a mockup in anycase, and is the mockup of a failed project, so yes I can see the view its not worth the trouble.

However the Wamira holds a special place in Australia’s sad Aviation Industry story.

It was a joint venture between the 3 pillars of the wartime and post war industry, CAC, GAF and HdeH, operating as the Australian Aircraft Consortium.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AAC_Wamira

The story of the aircraft and its creators are interwoven, as AAC was set up expressly to design and build the aircraft.

The consortium came into being in 1981, with its members being the three main aircraft manufacturers in Australia at that time—the Commonwealth Aircraft Corporation (CAC), the Government Aircraft Factories (GAF), and Hawker de Havilland (HdH).

The RAAF, which expressed an intention to buy 69 aircraft, specified a turboprop trainer of broadly conventional tricycle undercarriage low wing monoplane layout, to be powered by a Pratt & Whitney Canada PT6A-25C engine.[1] Unusually however its two seats were to be in a side-by-side configuration.

The RAAF also specified that the type be fully aerobatic; be capable of cross-country navigation and weapons training; and have a 200 kt cruising speed at Sea Level, and a minimum service life of 20 years and 8,000 flying hours.[1] AAC signed a Design and Development contract in June 1982 and began work to produce an aircraft to meet the design criteria under the designation A10.

When it became clear that the aircraft as specified by the RAAF had limited appeal to other potential users, a version with the more usual tandem seating was designed, this being designated the A20; both models were named Wamira.

A Memorandum of Understanding was signed with Westland Aircraft to establish a joint venture to market (and hopefully sell) the A20 in Europe.[2] The A20 was subsequently entered in the competition to replace the Royal Air Force (RAF) fleet of BAC Jet Provosts,[3] a competition eventually won by the Short Tucano.

An Engineering Mock Up (EMU) was produced in Australia consisting of a fuselage from the fin fillet forward with stub wings. Made from wood & alloy it utilised real aircraft components such as ejection seats, control columns, rudder pedals etc… and was shipped to the UK appearing on the Westlands stand at Farnboro’84.

However the Wamira was never a serious contender due to it being at the design stage whilst the other three contenders were flying aircraft.

By the time the RAF competition was lost, the whole Wamira project was in doubt. This was partly due to delays in completing the prototype, but mainly due to huge cost overruns.

At the time the RAAF was replacing its front line fighter fleet and wanted an Airborne Early Warning platform and in-flight refuelling aircraft to enhance the new type’s capabilities,[1] and an Auditor-General report found that the Wamira project cost was likely to be more than double that originally estimated.[1]

In July 1985 it was announced that the RAAF trainer requirement was now a competition, and that the Short Tucano and Pilatus PC-7 and PC-9 (all of which had tandem seating) would be considered as well as the Wamira. The same month CAC was absorbed by HdH, meaning that HdH now had a two-thirds share in AAC, and quickly became sole owner of the Wamira project when it bought GAF’s share.[4]

On 16 December 1985 the Pilatus PC-9 was announced as the winner of the competition and the Wamira project was cancelled.[5] Ironically the consortium partners were later jointly responsible for licence-production of the PC-9.

It was the last real attempt to build an indigenous military design for mass production.

It suffered the “worst” of Defence and Government meddling and nobbling, it was designed against a specific RAAF side by side seat requirement, when the RAF and all others were tandem seat specifications.

The Consortium therefore built a unique local design to meet RAAF requirements and reducing its ability to win business elsewhere, and the A10 prototype was built, the RAAF then walked away from their own specification and adopted the tandem requirement, leaving the A10 stranded as a waste, and the A20 still only on the drawing board and mockup stage.

Of course the different cultures of the 3 companies didnt help, there were long held rivalries to deal with, and the project suffered delays and cost over runs not just caused by the problems within Defence, it should have been run by one company as the lead contractor and the other two as sub-contractors, as had worked on earlier projects, but none had the capital to do so.

In the end the Wamira didnt win a local or export contract, but definately closed the door on all three independent companies. and bringing to an end local manufacturing of local military designs, it is the bookend of the story started by in the late 1930’s Laurence Wackett and CAC with the Wirraway, Wackett, Woomera and CA-15, and therefore fits well with the collection at Moorabbin where the CA-31 mockup is also displayed.

The A10 prototype is stored in the collection of the RAAF Museum at Point Cook, the A20 wooden mockup has led a sad life in the UK, but been under the protection of an enthusiast in recent years, and a number of Warbirdz forumites have decided its worth bringing home given its availability on ebay.

The Wamira is not quite the technological ilk of a TSR-2, but the stories have some parallels, perhaps a cockpit mockup in similar or worse condition of that UK aircraft type would generate similar preservation issues and interests for similar reasons.

I participated in a similar forum fundraiser for an HS 748, no doubt there are both aircraft enthusiasts of a different interest, and General Public normal people who would ask the proverbial “why would you bother” for that, or many other aircraft preservation efforts.

Some might argue that “aircraft enthusiast” is simply a medical condition yet to be fully diagnosed on some disorder spectrum, we all at some time probably encounter people who cant understand why we do the things we do – smiles

Regards

Mark Pilkington

Pulled from e-Bay

In case any of you didn’t notice as nobody seems to have commented; it looks like Mr Harrier has done you a favour there chaps.

Well Done that man (DT).

Anon.

And I thought I’d sinned too!!?? Glenn sorted it, thanks.

My comment, why would you bother, relates to the fact that it was a failed project that was never going to be built because of a design fault. I really can’t see why you’d save it, especially as it was the cockpit which was the problem.

G’day 😉

.

Smiles, I think the warbirdz forum access problems are only affecting certain IP’s on a geographic basis? and I understand its only a recent development occuring from about the end of the recent ashes series??

Actually Glenn above is the operator and I’m sure he will quickly sort out the problem.

Interestingly I suddenly suffered screen access problems to WIX after their recent database problems and found that was browser related.

Regards

Mark Pilkington

Works fine for me so :p 😉

Jon

Banning people seems to be quite popular! I’ve read it up until recently!!

Bruce

Good call Dave!

Apparently they have banned my IP address from that site! Most odd as I don’t think I’ve ever looked at it before!!

And mine!

Rockhopper, Ahhh I’ve sent you a pm
Feather 3, oops sorry.

Some aussies are trying to save a RAAF turbro prop 1980s trainer cockpit mock up currently located in the UK.

http://www.warbirdz.net/forum/showthread.php?t=918

Anyone want to help pitch and save a Aussie “warbird”?

Phil

Apparently they have banned my IP address from that site! Most odd as I don’t think I’ve ever looked at it before!!

Phil,

I’ve pulled the auction (listed under a friends new account) to give you guys downunder time to arrange yourselves. I’d like to see it preserved by someone. Why else would i have rescued it and stored it for the last 15+ years ?

.

I see the auction for the Wamira has ended early.
I hope those Aussies managed to beat the poms at this game….

Sorry Matt i cant help as i just acquired this week from the UK ….:)……. a rare RAAF WW2 seat parachute for a few thousand $$. This will go with my RAAF/RAF heritage flightgear displays at airshows and events.

(It must be a Aussie importing week and UK export week – first the Beaufighter fuselage and now a WW2 era parachute and maybe a Wamira to come?)

Maybe if i had more notice i could of contributed to the new fad….internet warbird community groups purchasing warbirds.
Could be the way of the future.. warbird buying as a community group online band together and save planes.

Phil

.
Its summer down here and we all do silly things due to the hot sun and too many tinnys, and of course we are trying to create a distraction after the disastrous ashes series.

XV806 can we put you or any other UK forumites down for $100? smiles

Hopefully “Daniel” / Phil will assist us further by putting his name and money down on the table?

Smiles

Mark Pilkington

Hey Daniel,

You gonna be part of it? 😉

Cheers,
Matt

Amazing thread. I can’t believe they are fund raising to buy my Wamira 😮

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