Auster – what does this do

All

I Think any replacement engine should be of modern design, a 2000 hour before O/H, dual electronic ignition etc

cheers

Rotax = buzz box

I have often wondered what engine you could replace a Gipsy in a Tiger with. Eventually the existing engines will wear out and a replacement will be necessary.

One of my Austers has no engine (the one I gave to my son) and I told him to start looking at fitting a lycoming – about 150 hp say a O-320. I wonder what a J-5 would go like with a smaller engine say a O-200 they are about 100 hp or so. From memory don’t they use about 18 litres an hour?

Wonder what HP a half life Gipsy is putting out?

cheers

Those are two questions I always wondered about myself! Because of the unique design (inline with inverted heads), there aren’t many alternatives around. The Caproni Ca.100, which was designed after the Tiger Moth and on which it was inspired, had a Colombo engine which was 4 inline, but with conventional heads.
Apart for the Gipsy family, I always wondered if the 175 hp Ranger L-440-1 engine (the one used on the PT-19) would have been too big for the Tiggie, or maybe the spanish Tigre 150hp engine, the one used on spanish produced Jungmanns (love the Jungmann!!)
Wikipedia also has a list of comparable engines for it

Alfa Romeo 110
Cirrus Major
Elizalde Tigre IV
Hirth HM 504
Menasco C4

It would be interesting to measure the HP output on a midlife Gipsy Major, I am sure there is some literature about it.

1946

That would explain by my engine has those mags, it was overhauled by the Bunns

Tiger Moth/Auster with constant speed prop – now that is getting a bit fancy.

In a way makes a bit morse sense for an Auster.

cheers

Engine replacement.

I beleive that several chipmunks and austers have had an engine replacement with a Chec. built engine as in the L.O.M. same layout as a gipsy/cirrus, I beleive that the rotational direction is opposite, and the exhaust exits from the other side. HP is from 90hp 4 cylinder through to a six cylinder supercharged at around 250hp. A selection of constant speed props are available. I assume that they are still available.(please donot quote figures supplied).
Re the mag replacement of BTH with sinchilla(?) I know that Don and Robert Bunn have and do the conversion with an STC. I was asked if I wanted it for my rebuilt Cirrus minor2 motor for myJ-1 ‘AIK’. Dick Hourigan rebuilt both the BTH mags and my spares.

Rotax = buzz box

I have often wondered what engine you could replace a Gipsy in a Tiger with. Eventually the existing engines will wear out and a replacement will be necessary.

One of my Austers has no engine (the one I gave to my son) and I told him to start looking at fitting a lycoming – about 150 hp say a O-320. I wonder what a J-5 would go like with a smaller engine say a O-200 they are about 100 hp or so. From memory don’t they use about 18 litres an hour?

Wonder what HP a half life Gipsy is putting out?

cheers

Mine has the ring mod and I have just topped it up for the first time since the annual. Have flown just over nine hours since, and it took 1.5 litres to fill to the 3 gal mark. So roughly 1/3 pint per hour.

Shame there isn’t a mod to improve fuel consumption.

(Please no suggestions to fit a Lycoming)

Lycoming? Naaah! Try a Rotax 914 Turbo! :D:D:D

Yes with a Dripsy Major its Top up the fuel and fill up the oil. 1 pint per hour.

There are mods that can be done to fit another oil scraper ring to the piston. A number of people have fitted them to their Gipsys here in Australia. The ones I have spoken to say they get a much reduced oil consumption. With the low hours I do each year with mt Tiger Moth, I figure the oil is cheaper than the cost of the mod.

cheers

Yeah, I’ve heard of that before, but I wonder what with the cylinder life then?

Mine has the ring mod and I have just topped it up for the first time since the annual. Have flown just over nine hours since, and it took 1.5 litres to fill to the 3 gal mark. So roughly 1/3 pint per hour.

Shame there isn’t a mod to improve fuel consumption.

(Please no suggestions to fit a Lycoming)

Yes with a Dripsy Major its Top up the fuel and fill up the oil. 1 pint per hour.

There are mods that can be done to fit another oil scraper ring to the piston. A number of people have fitted them to their Gipsys here in Australia. The ones I have spoken to say they get a much reduced oil consumption. With the low hours I do each year with mt Tiger Moth, I figure the oil is cheaper than the cost of the mod.

cheers

SF260 is modern stuff, we’re talking about 20s design here 😉
the oil consumption is quite embarassing on these old engines: i remember costantly checking the oil level and filling the oil tank was quite common routine.

[QUOTE=AlexT;1442503]uhm, I thought so as well, but you don’t use again the oil that gets in the breather trap usually, do you? QUOTE]

Well on Aerobatic aircraft such as the SF260 you do, it is more of a Oil separator to be correct, the oil air mix from the breather when doing aeros separates out in it, the vented oil returning to the engine with the air going overboard… otherwise there would be little point of going to the expense and weight of adding it as you might as well chuck the oil over the side with the air if you were not going to use it again….. all be it a bit messy.

Looks remarkably like one.

AlexT

From Tigers you would know that the breather pipe is normally taken from the top rear of the Gipsy, clamped to the firewall and run down one of the undercarriage legs. Tigers – rebuilt, owned and operated one for nearly 30 years – god real good knowledge.

Proctors – know a real lot!

It doesn’t seem to be the case here in my Auster, I can’t see where it is surposed to go and the “cylinderical thing” is yet another complecation. Maybe the oil is trapped and returned to the oil tank.

Knew there was a reason I steered away from Austers.

cheers

in the ones I fiddled with the oil breather pipe would end in the fairing under the cowl together with the carburator fuel drain pipe, never had them running down the leg (which would have made a bloody lot more sense, instead of having always to clean the belly of the tiggie!) 🙂

Do u have other pics of this tank?

AlexT

From Tigers you would know that the breather pipe is normally taken from the top rear of the Gipsy, clamped to the firewall and run down one of the undercarriage legs. Tigers – rebuilt, owned and operated one for nearly 30 years – god real good knowledge.

Proctors – know a real lot!

It doesn’t seem to be the case here in my Auster, I can’t see where it is surposed to go and the “cylinderical thing” is yet another complecation. Maybe the oil is trapped and returned to the oil tank.

Knew there was a reason I steered away from Austers.

cheers

All

I don’t think its an oil cooler, more likely a breather oil trap. the drain from the device returns to the oil return lines as can be seen from the image. As AlexT says, the norm is for the oil tank to provide cooling of the oil, it has a good air flow past it.

I have heard of similar devices being fitted to the Gipsy Majors in Tiger Moths, just haven’t come across one.

Can someone tell me where the pipe from the crankcase vent on the top rear of the Gipsy run, in an Gipsy Major powered Auster J5

cheers

uhm, I thought so as well, but you don’t use again the oil that gets in the breather trap usually, do you? It seems like there’s a vent on top of the tank too. Once again, it would be easier to understand what it is if there were other pictures available. I had a look at my Gipsy Major pics and couldnt find anything similar. I fiddled with three different Tiger Moths for several years and none of them had this feature installed.

As per the oil coolers, I assume that by the time the Gipsy was installed on relatively advanced planes, the oil cooler became a common feature, maybe a bit redundant, but there if necessary. I don’t know much about Austers, but I assume that the oil tank position is not hidden in the fuselage, or is it?

well, in a dry sump engine (like the Gipsy Major) usually the oil tank itself works as a cooler, as the temperatures reached are not as high as in the wet sump system. This kind of modification would probably be suitable for operation in warmer countries, where oil could get a bit hotter than usual.

All the J5/F’s I have ever seen have oil coolers, mine certainly left Rearsby with one. I would have thought any Auster, built originally for export to Australia, would also have had one fitted.

All

I don’t think its an oil cooler, more likely a breather oil trap. the drain from the device returns to the oil return lines as can be seen from the image. As AlexT says, the norm is for the oil tank to provide cooling of the oil, it has a good air flow past it.

I have heard of similar devices being fitted to the Gipsy Majors in Tiger Moths, just haven’t come across one.

Can someone tell me where the pipe from the crankcase vent on the top rear of the Gipsy run, in an Gipsy Major powered Auster J5

cheers

All

I don’t think its an oil cooler, more likely a breather oil trap. the drain from the device returns to the oil return lines as can be seen from the image. As AlexT says, the norm is for the oil tank to provide cooling of the oil, it has a good air flow past it.

I have heard of similar devices being fitted to the Gipsy Majors in Tiger Moths, just haven’t come across one.

cheers

I don’t think you are far off, I forgot to mention in my previous post that the oil cooler seems to be missing.

well, in a dry sump engine (like the Gipsy Major) usually the oil tank itself works as a cooler, as the temperatures reached are not as high as in the wet sump system. This kind of modification would probably be suitable for operation in warmer countries, where oil could get a bit hotter than usual.

Another common modification done in warmer countries is the deactivation of the carb ducts heating done through the exhaust tapping, because in very hot days it might cause precombustion in the carb ducts themselves.

the overflow oil is directed in the cylindrical tank, where it cools down and gets back to the the normal circuit; basically a rough oil cooler, as simple as that 🙂

This is my guess of course, it would really help to see where the two ends are connected.

I don’t think you are far off, I forgot to mention in my previous post that the oil cooler seems to be missing.

the overflow oil is directed in the cylindrical tank, where it cools down and gets back to the the normal circuit; basically a rough oil cooler, as simple as that 🙂

This is my guess of course, it would really help to see where the two ends are connected.