In a story called ‘The Last War’ by Jan Nienmczyk
http://www.tboverse.us/HPCAFORUM/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=1914&st=0&sk=t&sd=a
He mentions a 1988 proposal to turn two flat steel product ships into CVE for the RAN, this never happened due to opposition from the CNS but does anyone have any drawings for this?
2 BHP Iron Duke class flat steel product carriers laid up late 1980s. After initial rejection by RAN CNS 1988 as offered by BHP for $36 million in tax credits, ordered purchased by government to maintain ASW helicopters at sea, 1991 at cost $72 million. Converted to operate up to six Seaking Mk50A ASW helicopters with dipping sonar, or like number utility helicopters. However, able to accommodate up to 10 Seaking in hangar deck. One acft lift. No ability to accommodate troops.
Mark Bailey mentions the proposal elsewhere
We tried the cheap-and-nasty approach in ‘82. BHP had two flat steel products carriers (Iron Monarch and iron Duke) laid up in Sydney. They would have made excellent and economical helicopter carriers, and their engines were civilian versions of the LM2500 naval gas turbine in the Perry’s (85% commonality IIRC). 8 Seaking (our A/S helo back in those days) could have been carried in their hangar, the converted cargo deck. Everyone said it was a good idea, and it cost nowt, because BHP wanted to gift them to the Commonwealth in return for a tax write-off. Admiral Mike Hudson said no, he did not want the flagship of the RAN to be a converted merchant ship. The troops did not nickname him ‘Mudguard’ for nothing (Mudguard = shiny on top, *** underneath)
MarkL
Canberra
By: StevoJH - 11th July 2009 at 14:56
So essential an RFA Argus? Real shame it didn’t happen, she has her limitations but has been a real workhorse in the RN. Been used for transort, Medvac, LPH, Training….
Right, like Argus they are are RO-RO’s, the difference being a rear superstructure and gas turbine (later diesel) propulsion.
By: pjhydro - 11th July 2009 at 10:58
So essential an RFA Argus? Real shame it didn’t happen, she has her limitations but has been a real workhorse in the RN. Been used for transort, Medvac, LPH, Training….
By: StevoJH - 10th July 2009 at 14:13
Yes, yes they do. Once again I’m wrong:
“Iron Monarch being the world’s first commercial vessel powered by an industrial gas turbine engine….Owing to mechanical breakdowns leading up to 1980, she was docked at Newcastle, New South Wales for major modifications. Primarily, metal fatigue from thermal recycling had reduced performance down to 16 knots from almost 23 knots maximum at initial sea trials. From 25 September 1980 she underwent satisfactory sea trials after conversion to simple cycle operation. she steamed at 17 knots , from 90 tonnes of waxy crude per day whilst horsepower was 17,500. Resumed normal services within the fleet until 9 March 1983 when she was laid up at Newcastle owing to economic downturn coupled with rising costs and reduced speed performance. Placed for sale on the market, she was later given a reprieve when BHP management decided upon re-engining her.”
So much for Iron Monarch (she remains in service in 2009, although as above she now has diesels).
Iron Duke was scrapped 1986 after suffering similar engineering issus as Iron Monarch.
Sounds like after the re-engineing Monarch did 18 knots on 30 tonnes of fuel compared to 20.5 knots on 82 tonnes of fuel, that means that the Diesels are a hell of a lot more efficient with a 2.5 knot reduction in the sustained speed.
But it as it sounds like Duke was out of the picture for a 1988 conversion since she was razor blades by then. TLW is a good story though, I highly recommend it. Wish there was more mention of the ADF though.
By: Peter G - 10th July 2009 at 12:42
Yes, yes they do. Once again I’m wrong:
“Iron Monarch being the world’s first commercial vessel powered by an industrial gas turbine engine….Owing to mechanical breakdowns leading up to 1980, she was docked at Newcastle, New South Wales for major modifications. Primarily, metal fatigue from thermal recycling had reduced performance down to 16 knots from almost 23 knots maximum at initial sea trials. From 25 September 1980 she underwent satisfactory sea trials after conversion to simple cycle operation. she steamed at 17 knots , from 90 tonnes of waxy crude per day whilst horsepower was 17,500. Resumed normal services within the fleet until 9 March 1983 when she was laid up at Newcastle owing to economic downturn coupled with rising costs and reduced speed performance. Placed for sale on the market, she was later given a reprieve when BHP management decided upon re-engining her.”
So much for Iron Monarch (she remains in service in 2009, although as above she now has diesels).
Iron Duke was scrapped 1986 after suffering similar engineering issues as Iron Monarch.
By: StevoJH - 10th July 2009 at 12:26
Just did some google searching, yes they do have gas turbines from what i can see.
http://www.shipsandharbours.com/picture/number718.asp
http://www.flotilla-australia.com/2bhp.htm
By: Peter G - 10th July 2009 at 12:15
There was talk of container ship conversions during the 1980s, but the capability was considered too low (okay they can carry helos, but how far to go down the C&C path, self defence and sensor?) and lacked meaningful damage control capability (single shaft, single engine room, etc) and are single role ASW. Also too noisy – they carry ASW helos but somewhat spoiled by the ship signature.
I’d like to know the source for the gas turbine propulsion – AFAIK no Australian commercial ships have ever been gas turbine powered.
It’d be feasible in Jan’s story timeline – its war and peacetime tradeoffs go out the window.
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July 10, 2009 at 12:05 pm