Australian Breguet XI

OK, dear Mark.

I understood You.

Thank for explanations.

Best wishes,
Flyer.

Flyer

the aircraft you refer to is in my list above as:

7. Bleriot monoplane s/n unk, imported by T Reynolds Sept 1914, donated to Defence Dept, became CFS-6, mostly used for ground instruction.

CFS-6 was its Central Flying School aircraft number (ie No.6) it was acquired in late 1914 and disposed of sometime after 1917 and in keeping with the other aircraft delivered and in use prior to it in 1914, its unlikely it carried any markings.

Maurice Farman Shorthorn CFS-20, purchased in 1917 and disposed of in 1919 carried its CFS number on its tri-color rudder and also repeated its number on the nose as did a number of the later aircraft, however the early aircraft such as CFS-1 to CFS-5 (2x BE2a, 1x Bristol Boxkite and 2x Deperdussin) were all operating in 1914 as “plain” finished with no tri-color fin flashes or “CFS” numbers.

If you have a photo of a Bleriot with an Australian Flag, this is more likely to be:

3. Bleriot XI s/n unk, imported by Gaston Cugnet as Bleriot company demonstrator in September 1910, named “Australia” by Australian Prime Minister, flown at Altona Victoria, crashed at MCG, shipped to Queensland for static display in March 1911.

Although the photo above of it flying at the MCG after its “naming” does not show any obvious markings associated with that event?

I myself have not seen any photos of any with markings in Australia, and I am unsure any Bleriot’s would have carried markings in Australia, other than names or “personalisations” as their use pre-date any formal aircraft registrations existing in Australia, other than the “CFS” numbers.

Regards

Mark Pilkington

Hello, JDK !

Thank You for answer.
I asked about insignias, symbols, etc. on Australian Bleriot, because some countries painted some insignia or names on some their Bleriots yet – for example, National flags on tails of Swedish, British, Bulgarian airplanes. Or roundels on wings of Russian Bleriots. Or some names on fuselages of Serbian Bleriots.

The worldairforces.com site reported about Australian Bleriot XI, which was used by Australian military aviation in one example, from 1914 until 1917.
Has this aircraft any insignia or not ? Which aircraft (according to Mark’s list of Bleriots) was this ?

Regards,
Flyer.

Easy mistake, no problem.

I’m not aware of any markings on the aircraft – mandatory registrations hadn’t been required then! I’d assume that “Australia” had the name painted on it, as was common for that kind of thing.

Have you followed Mark’s links for the referenced photos?

The Guillaux Bleriot is featured in a film on the British Pathe website (www.britishpathe.com) for the air mail run. I don’t have the cat number to hand.

What do you want to know for? A bit more info might net you more feedback.

Cheers

Um. Which? I don’t know a Breguet XI, so I presume you mean Bleriot XI?

It’s a bit vague – can you be a bit more specific? What sort of information? (Or what for?)

Sorry, guys !

I mean BLERIOT XI, of course !

Excuse me, please…
——————————————————————-
TO Mark Pilkington:

Had any of those Australian Bleriots any markings, letters, codes, names ?

The following Bleriots are recorded as being imported to Australia.

1. Bleriot monoplane (s/n unk) Imported by L Adamson in Nov 1909 – attempted flight by Defries 18 December 1909, dumped at sea to recover import duty – no serial number known

2. Bleriot XI s/n #37 Imported by F Jones in Feb 1910 – flown by Custance in March 1910 in SA, destroyed by fire @ May 1910

3. Bleriot XI s/n unk, imported by Gaston Cugnet as Bleriot company demonstrator in September 1910, named “Australia” by Australian Prime Minister, flown at Altona Victoria, crashed at MCG, shipped to Queensland for static display in March 1911.

4. Metz Bleriot XI s/n unk, imported by AB “Wizard” Stone, April 1913, offered to Defence Dept in Sept 1914 but not accepted.

5. Bleriot XI s/n unk imported by Maurice Guillaux April 1914, made first loop the loop in Australia 20 April, first Melbourne to Sydney Airmail flown 16 July 1914.
NOTE:aircraft survives today in the Powerhouse museum collection – Sydney

6. Bleriot XI s/n unk imported by Lt R E B Hunt, Aug 1914, offered to Dept of Defence, rejected, apparantly not removed from ship?

7. Bleriot monoplane s/n unk, imported by T Reynolds Sept 1914, donated to Defence Dept, became CFS-6, mostly used for ground instruction.

8. Bleriot XI s/n unk imported by A J Carter Oct 1914, (French Consul in Qld) sold to F Hammond, offered to Dept Defence in Oct 1914, rejected.

A number of monoplanes of local construction, and based on the Bleriot also existed in Australia between 1911 and 1914.

In addition to the original “Guillaux” Bleriot XI surviving in the Powerhouse Museum in Sydney, two replica’s were built by the Burnie TAFE in Tasmania in the late 1990’s with one placed on display in the Queen Victoria Museum in Launceston Tasmania and the other stored in a private collection in Victoria.

Google at the National Library of Australia, AWM and Mitchell State Library of NSW will yield many photos of Australian Bleriots.

http://www.migrationheritage.nsw.gov.au/exhibition/objectsthroughtime/bleriot/

– Gaston Cugnet at the MCG

http://cas.awm.gov.au/photograph/P00589.001

POINT COOK, VIC. C.1914. BRISTOL BOX KITE IN FLIGHT WITH BLERIOT XI AIRCRAFT FOLLOWING. (ORIGINAL GLASS NEGATIVE HELD IN AWM ARCHIVE STORE) (DONOR: R.H. LECKIE).

This photo held by the AWM is quite interesting, the aircraft at the front is definately NOT a military Bristol Boxkite as used at the CFS in 1914 in the form of CFS 3 or CFS 8, it does not have the top wing extensions, and in addition its tail is not a “box” with upper and lower horizontal surfaces, Neither is it either of the Hammond Boxkites which had arrived in 1910 but both had ceased operation by 1912. it bears no resemblance to other biplanes in the country prior to 1914, including the Caudron, Farman or Duigan. If taken at Point Cook it would therefore be one of the two Graham White Boxkites CFS 11 or CFS 12, and the Bleriot in the distant background could be CFS 6 referred above although these Boxkites were not at Point Cook until 1916?, and CFS 6 is reported as only being used for ground training?

It could be Maurice Guillaux’s Bleriot visiting in 1914 prior to the airmail flight, or the same aircraft when later owned by R G Carey and used by him at Point Cook in November 1916 to gain his Civilian pilots licence.

Given the apparant Graham White Boxkite dating it as 1916, it is most likely this second option of the Carey aircraft at the time of his civilian licence test and the photo is actually from 1916 not 1914.

regards

Mark Pilkington

Um. Which? I don’t know a Breguet XI, so I presume you mean Bleriot XI?

It’s a bit vague – can you be a bit more specific? What sort of information? (Or what for?)