Australia's Shame

So who takes on the burden of those reparations? Higher taxes on everyone? Do you make the people who voted for those who enacted the policies pay it?

That argument falls down on the simple fact that public funds are used for criminal injuries and state liability payments in many countries all the time.

A truly shameful subject that should make all concerned feel great unease. Personally, given that this is not an abstract, distant argument but one where the victims are still with us then I think an apology and compensation appropriate. On the rights/wrongs of the aborigine people, I’m sure they do suffer a lot of social problems, but the question is why? Make a people second class and then whinge at the results? This is like the argument of white South Africans who wanted blacks to be second class then used the fact blacks were poor and less well educated to justify the act of keeping them second class.

The U.S. in their righteous might should have invaded Australia over this. Operation: Foster’s Freedom.

Never happen…there is no oil to exploit and they have Bud after all !

Will apologizing for something that happened in the past stop the petrol sniffing and alcoholism or get the ******s off welfare ..certainly not ..i think more effort and money should be spent on reforming the present generation instead of worrying about the indiscretions of past Governments..i wonder how long it’ll be before the compensation claims start pouring in?

More generisations, in the UK this could almost be seen as tantimount to incitement to racial hatred!

Did it ever occur to you that maybe what these unfortunates that you refer to have gone through & continue to go through might have caused them to fall from your kind of grace? Count yourself lucky that you werent born coloured!

Absolutely not.
We should concentrate efforts on sorting out the problems that are relevant now, apologising for 10 generations back does no good at all.

Half the world starves while the other half throws away enough food to feed it. Whether it’s pure waste from over-buying, or the horrific policy of throwing (eg Apples) away at the picking site because they are not 2.5″ diameter and a perfect colour match to a card that some shiney-**** in an office has decided it’s the colour the shopper wants.
That’s something realistic to feel guilty about don’t you think?

Ahh so due to the time it took for the Australian Government to acknowledge the disgrace of this policy an apology is wrong ?If that is the case then the Japanese shouldnt apologise for all they got up to during WW2 is that so? because if it is you are way off the beam old boy!!!

What about those still alive and still suffering as a result of this policy? And exactly what does an apology cost? Compensation to those who were effected? dont you trust the Australian judical system to prevent any miscarraige of justice? Given that it took so long for this apology to be finally dragged out you might be right but i would think it would be those who were taken from their families who should be concerned not those who are concerned about admitting the shame of it all !

With regards to your point re the wastage of foods and the starving of the world you are spot on, it is something for everyone to be ashamed of. but what is the relevence of it here? One could say that China should be ashamed of its “one child ” policy but it isnt relevent to what we are talking about here.

The government of the 1800’s does not belong to anybody alive to day. People of the 21st century have no responsibility for acts that they did not commit. The Romans used to watch people fight to the death (amongst some other even more horrendous acts) for pleasure, to their society it was acceptable, to ours it is not. However we have never done such a thing so why should we apologise for it?

You seem to be suggesting that every human being alive today is responsible for the actions of every other human being from every other combination of time and space. Quite simply this is absurd.

No i didnt but your stablemate did ! Really My lord i am disappointed but not surprized. :rolleyes: It was he after all who mentioned Britian & the slave trade .I merely suggested that the standards that might have been acceptable back then were not acceptable today.

Do try reading the posts properly ,get your facts right ,Larry old son ,& address your comments to the right person.:rolleyes:

The U.S. in their righteous might should have invaded Australia over this. Operation: Foster’s Freedom.

Will apologizing for something that happened in the past stop the petrol sniffing and alcoholism or get the ******s off welfare ..certainly not ..i think more effort and money should be spent on reforming the present generation instead of worrying about the indiscretions of past Governments..i wonder how long it’ll be before the compensation claims start pouring in?

So the way things were done 100’s of years ago is acceptable? It may not have been the done thing back then to admit something was wrong & issue and apology but havent we moved on a bit?

And you think that if something is revealed, that shows a horrendous act perpetrated by a government but hidden for years , you honestly think that you should not feel shame for what happened and the way your government has mishandled it over the last few years?

Absolutely not.
We should concentrate efforts on sorting out the problems that are relevant now, apologising for 10 generations back does no good at all.

Half the world starves while the other half throws away enough food to feed it. Whether it’s pure waste from over-buying, or the horrific policy of throwing (eg Apples) away at the picking site because they are not 2.5″ diameter and a perfect colour match to a card that some shiney-**** in an office has decided it’s the colour the shopper wants.
That’s something realistic to feel guilty about don’t you think?

So the way things were done 100’s of years ago is acceptable? It may not have been the done thing back then to admit something was wrong & issue and apology but havent we moved on a bit?

And you think that if something is revealed, that shows a horrendous act perpetrated by a government but hidden for years , you honestly think that you should not feel shame for what happened and the way your government has mishandled it over the last few years?

The government of the 1800’s does not belong to anybody alive to day. People of the 21st century have no responsibility for acts that they did not commit. The Romans used to watch people fight to the death (amongst some other even more horrendous acts) for pleasure, to their society it was acceptable, to ours it is not. However we have never done such a thing so why should we apologise for it?

You seem to be suggesting that every human being alive today is responsible for the actions of every other human being from every other combination of time and space. Quite simply this is absurd.

Im sure you want Britain to apologise over the slave trade as well.

Get a grip man. We have nothing to feel shame about now.

So the way things were done 100’s of years ago is acceptable? It may not have been the done thing back then to admit something was wrong & issue and apology but havent we moved on a bit?

And you think that if something is revealed, that shows a horrendous act perpetrated by a government but hidden for years , you honestly think that you should not feel shame for what happened and the way your government has mishandled it over the last few years?

Why should the incumbent Government apologize for something that that happened in a bygone era that had nothing to do with their generation..the indigenous people in this country never stop whinging about something or anything ..i’m sick and tired of hearing about it

So because they are ” whingers” this makes what happened right ? If it isnt ok, and i hope you will admit that it want,what about those who are still alive who had their lives severely effected by the actions of what was meant to be a Democratic Western civilisation?

2nd attempt..hopefully acceptable this time !

Why should the incumbent Government apologize for something that that happened in a bygone era that had nothing to do with their generation..the indigenous people in this country never stop whinging about something or anything ..i’m sick and tired of hearing about it

So because they are ” whingers” this makes what happened right ? If it isnt ok, and i hope you will admit that it want,what about those who are still alive who had their lives severaly effected by the actions of what was meant to be a Democratic Western civilisation?

2nd attempt..hopefully acceptable this time !

Yes…. quite.

I note with interest the use of “extermination camp” as opposed to the more usual “concentration camp”….nice touch. Emily Hobhouse would weep.

I also have always been amazed at the vitriol Australia sent South Africa’s way during the 1970’s and 1980’s for the abhorrent system of apartheid, yet looking at their own house…… The hypocrisy was astounding.

Like most countries Australia was blind to its own faults and apparently, judging by the hesitant & unhappy apology, is still somewhat Myopic!

Not wishing to get on anyone’s goat here but… the UK abolished slavery of it’s own volition at a time when it was probably the most powerful country in the world. The Japanese and Germans had to be bombed into submission for their slaves to be freed…

I’m not commenting on the Aboriginal issue as I know little of it. Nor am I saying that ‘Empire UK’ gave up its slaves for entirely selfless reasons or did so without dissent or that the UK is now some kind of multi-ethnic utopia – clearly not.

Rather that the country’s policy-makers eventually evolved a more enlightened stance on bonded labour thanks in no small part to democracy and the free speech exercised by its citizens.

Thus, I think a distinction can be drawn between the UK and the former Axis powers on this issue at least… when it came to slavery we eventually something about it. When it came to extermination camps… we did something about that too.

Yes…. quite.

I note with interest the use of “extermination camp” as opposed to the more usual “concentration camp”….nice touch. Emily Hobhouse would weep.

I also have always been amazed at the vitriol Australia sent South Africa’s way during the 1970’s and 1980’s for the abhorrent system of apartheid, yet looking at their own house…… The hypocrisy was astounding.

No stereotypes, even thought the stereotypical stereotype is 90% correct.
It’s like shooting fish in a barrel sometimes.

Well at least you proved my point.

Did the Brits ever apologise to Germany for the obliteration of their cities? There was a movement to do so…..same movement that wanted Bomber Harris declared a War criminal one presumes.

No and why should they? If this subject is to produce an apology it should have come from RAF planners and pre-war theorists for creating such a pointless doctrine.

No stereotypes, even thought the stereotypical stereotype is 90% correct.
It’s like shooting fish in a barrel sometimes.
GA will be annoyed if we carry on, leave it at nil-nil.

Did the Brits ever apologise to Germany for the obliteration of their cities? There was a movement to do so…..same movement that wanted Bomber Harris declared a War criminal one presumes.

On the main topic, the “Theft” of these children seems to me to be a case of the right idea but totally incorrect action to do it.

Right idea to integrate (If the Aborigine wanted such) but a typical colonial way of doing it.

And, who is to say that some of these children were not happily given over? It may sound harsh, but even now when travelling to the poorer parts of the world, women will beg you to take their children because they cannot afford to feed them and they know the child will have a better chance in life in the West. Many a Soloman’s choice still faces such dire poverty stricken areas.

The original intention was merely an observation.

But your protestation in defence of the country that cannot do wrong in the world was an opportunity not to be missed. It would not be British of me to allow it to pass.
And I am not a USA basher, I love the place. Don’t like the politics, don’t like the over-sensitivity and outrageous political correctness…but it’s one of the most interesting places on the planet. I will be there yet again in 2008, hopefully fleecing the DoD again. Well, I say fleecing, but if they agree to pay for stuff they cannot invent/design/build/integrate…we are both winners.

As a matter of on topic, have any Aborigine people ever settled in the USA? Genuine question, I wondered how they integrated there. Don’t think there is any in UK either.

I never said the USA could do no wrong, indeed I described manifest destiny as a heinous crime, your stereotyping of me and the country that uses the flag in my avatar gives us a telling insight into your character and beliefs.

Well that confirms the intention of your initial comment anyway.:mad:

The original intention was merely an observation.

But your protestation in defence of the country that cannot do wrong in the world was an opportunity not to be missed. It would not be British of me to allow it to pass.
And I am not a USA basher, I love the place. Don’t like the politics, don’t like the over-sensitivity and outrageous political correctness…but it’s one of the most interesting places on the planet. I will be there yet again in 2008, hopefully fleecing the DoD again. Well, I say fleecing, but if they agree to pay for stuff they cannot invent/design/build/integrate…we are both winners.

As a matter of on topic, have any Aborigine people ever settled in the USA? Genuine question, I wondered how they integrated there. Don’t think there is any in UK either.

And who is to say that those who elected those governments are still alive, or supported the actions in the first place? If es ministers and civil servants want to say sorry then go for it but do not force guilt onto people who bare no responsibility.

Interesting.

Was the apology made on behalf of the Australian government, or on behalf of the Australian nation?

A subtle yet important distinction, as I’m sure you will agree.