Aviation non-fiction publishers

(Shovel, shovel shovel….)
Better. Try PM’ing me now!

Maybe meet Saturday if I can get to DX?

Cheers
James

JDK.

Just tried to pm you as you suggested but your inbox is full. You can pm me or email me through the forum if you wish.

Thanks for your offer of help. It is appreciated.

Regards,

kev35

Thanks very much for sharing Aerovin.
Again I quite agree. As a bookshop manager I was shown covers and AIs (Advance Information sheets – a single A4 summarising the book – details like ‘where the author lives’ so you were warned if it ‘was around the corner’!) for several hundered books a week, even in a specialled bookshop – in between all the other things booksellers do. In a larger bookshop, we’d see easilly 1,000 per week – accross 4 – 10 staff, of course, Floor Managers and the like. Your book has about 2 seconds to get an order. And that’s with an established rep!

My publisher is ONLY viable because we got an excellent distributor and sales force – it can be done (you could use the same people!) but it costs, and they won’t waste their time with an unsellable book anymore than a bookshop would.

Rob, Daz (and anyone else) it can and is done, so go for it, but I heartilly agree with Aerovin’s lat remark about ‘reality checks’!

Cheers

I’ve had a small number of books published and also self-published three under my Aero Vintage Books company. In my limited experience, there are two things that will hinder self-published books: distribution and promotion. Trying to get the books into catalogs and bookstores is very time consuming and frustrating. Most sellers are only going to use the major distributors and they just don’t want to mess around with a few titles.

Advertising is crucial but very expensive. It will eat up profits quickly. It seems like you can sell books if you advertise but you spend your income on the advertisements. Having a website is good for sales, but there are an awful lot of aviation books out there, with more coming every day. There is much competition for a limited number of dollars (or pounds). If you have a great book that is well produced, and it hits the market right, you will make more money self-publishing than you will if you go through a publisher. However, you need to be the 1 in 1,000 that hits the market right. The odds aren’t good.

Don’t deceive yourself that the book will be a bestseller just because you are interested in the subject. Unbiased market research is critical; a gut feeling doesn’t sell books. One book I did, “B-25 Mitchell in Civil Service,” has a very narrow niche market and it sold appropriately. Guys who had the interest and bought the book thought it was great (and it is!). However, it won’t sell as well as a book on the B-25 in general. I’m still selling the B-25 book, but I also have alot of money tied up in the book that only trickles back. It will take another year or two to sell the title out. This book was published nearly seven years ago with a 2,000 copy print run. On the other hand, we did a DC-3 book that sold out 2,000 copies within two years, and the three authors split about $20,000 net.

Do your homework, and don’t be optimistic. Stay current with the reality checks.

Just a note to RobAnt’s comments.
First off, thanks for adding them, and you are quite right in what you say Rob.

I’d consider e-publishing a completely different game to publishing. To be honest, I don’t think e-publishing works under the current scenario (not that it’s not going to in the future!) and if you want to go web, start with a website, and build from there – one of our authors put up the best website on an aircraft (the Gladiator – Alex Crawford) and we later published a book by him on Glads. However, the book was far from ‘the book of the site’ and there was a lot of work there still required!

Chap called Stephen King (you may have heard of him – he actually makes money by writing!) tried an e-publishing venture a couple of years ago. It was too early, and was a qualified failure – lots of people learned from it, and I think the shape of e-publishing is still changing.

I’m not saying don’t do it – just it’s a different game. The other question is ‘who wants to buy / read your works?’ We’ll cheerfully hand over wodges of cash for a book in a shop, but squeek rather than pay a quid for content over the web! And web booksellers are still maturing. The much vaunted Amazon would have gone bust years ago if a) they were expected to make money (for the first 7 – 8 years they lost money hand over fist) and b) if they were still just punting only books.

Oh, yes, in 2000, I like a lot of other idiots was working in e-commerce – book e-commerce to be precise. I learned a lot there too!

Cheers

Hi All,
Of course, I think we ought to prove Melvyn wrong, 😀 but joking aside, all his advice and comment are bang on the button. I’m very happy to help too, Kev, so drop me a PM if you like. No charge! 😉

Like Melvyn, I know what I’m talking about because I’ve done a lot of it – 15 years as a bookseller in a lot of different jobs up to and including running some of the country’s largest shops. I currently help run an aviation book publisher, and the amazing bit, currently I am working on a couple of books as an author – you’d think I’d know better!

The reason I’m (still) interested, is that it is rewarding, fun, hard work – and worthwhile (in satisfaction if not in money) – but there are a lot of mistakes everyone makes, unless, as Melvyn’s said, people bother to find out first. The Artist’s & Writer’s is a good first step – get out and ask lots of questions after doing your basic research. Enjoy!

The most depressing thing I used to see was a would-be author carrying a plastic bag of his self published books into my shop; and expecting us to sell them for him. ‘No’ was always the answer. Not because I was mean (opinion may vary) but because he had published something unsellable.

The one thing we haven’t talked about here is distribution. My publisher works because we have a very good distributor and an excellent rep-team selling it into bookshops across the UK. That costs, but if you want to shift your book, rather than have a garage full of heavy wasted trees…

For what it’s worth, Kev, I think your posts show a thoughtful considered opinion, so your idea, (whatever it may be!) should be like that – which is good. For anyone reading this, I’d just add – don’t bother unless you’ve got “a good story, well told” and then be prepared to work bl@@dy hard to bring it to life. If the above don’t apply, cut the number of silly books published by one – please!

Oh, and good luck.

Originally posted by kev35
Melvyn.

Again I see your point. I believe there is an audience for what I am proposing. I have no real knowledge of publishing so your time, patience and assistance is greatly appreciated. I am taking on board all the advice given in this thread. It is possible that I am not making my intentions clear but I am loathe to go public at the moment for various reasons. Only time will tell the outcome. Until then I take notice of the advice I receive and hopefully, somewhere along the line, it will all work out.

Regards,

kev35

Kev, Email me on [email]melvyn@melvynhiscock.com[/email] and I’ll send you my phone numbers and we can talk. I hope it was clear that I want to help it’s just that I dont want to extend that to helping you waste time and money!

One of the big problems I have found with publishing, in all areas, is that people on both sides do not talk and discuss what the ins and outs are so I try to inform people. If more people understood how the process works, and in some cases just how many other books they are up against, many bad feelings arguments and general crapola would be avoided.

You never know, I may even HELP you prove me wrong!

Melvyn

Melvyn.

“I hate to say this in this way, but if you have to get that desperate to get the book published then it could well be that there is no reason to do it in the first place and no market. That will inevitably come across as a harsh statement when you see it in black and white but it is the truth.”

Yes, you’re right, I didn’t like that at all. But I am sensible enough to see and take heed of the point you are making.

“Chasing a dream in getting your ideal book published can cost you dearly and I would not like to see that happen. I am, however always happy to be proven wrong.”

Glad to hear it. So now we know what my next ambition is.

“The bottom line is that it is a product and needs to be sold in order to justify its existence. Merely “publishing” something is nothing more or less than self-graitification. If it doesn’t get in front of a reader then it is only a waste of trees.”

Again I see your point. I believe there is an audience for what I am proposing. I have no real knowledge of publishing so your time, patience and assistance is greatly appreciated. I am taking on board all the advice given in this thread. It is possible that I am not making my intentions clear but I am loathe to go public at the moment for various reasons. Only time will tell the outcome. Until then I take notice of the advice I receive and hopefully, somewhere along the line, it will all work out.

Regards,

kev35

Originally posted by Troy Tempest
Have you thought of testing the water by submitting articles to the mags?? I’ve gone down that route and found that they’ll publish my articles and so am now considering a couple of books on the back of this. I know there is a market for the stuff I’m writing so hopefully….. (and have got paid for most of it!) so it may be a worthwhile option in the interim?? I would follow the same advice by concentrating on one publisher who likes your ideas as this makes it a lot easier in the long run.

I’ve already had the one Spitfire replica article published – back in May 2002 in Today’s Pilot and have suggested another very recently.

Originally posted by kev35

How about if you’re not that interested in making money?

Quite a few people aren’t but you should remember that is is going to cost you in time and you may well incur costs that are not going to be covered by the publisher.

You are also taking on a contracted committment to complete the work. Doing it for love might be fine but be aware that, whether you take money or not, it is a commercial enterprise.

[B] That the crux of the whole thing for a potential author is to honour someone’s wishes and provide a tribute to that person and their colleagues?[b]

Sometimes, depends on the subject. To be brutally honest these are often the books that really do not sell.

Is self publishing a viable proposition if it comes to that?

Generally no and ‘vanity’ publishing never is. Self-publishing is possible and it is very easy to do an average job. It is far more difficult to do it properly. Proper editing IS important and it costs, same with proof reading. Layout and knowledge of book design is also needed. However, what is far more important is selling the book. I have often said that any idiot can write a book, any idiot can publish one (and i speak as one of thoe idiots) but that is the easy part. Selling is by far the most difficult part of the process and as I think I have said before on this thread, few people realise how much margin is used up getting the book in front of the customer.

I am a self-publisher have been lucky that I have a successful book (75K sold so far, 350 in the past two weeks) and I have been in the business long enough to know what not to do but I find it very sad to see people with piles of unsold self-published books.

Would providing a publisher with say 200 letters of intent to purchase the publication make any difference?

No, not a bit and with the greatest respect if you could get 200 letters you would end up in the Guinness book of records. It just doesn’t happen. I have heard the “There are loads of people queuing up to buy this” line and it never, and I really do mean never, happens. Some people get into the high tens but never more than that. Even then 200 people is not going to convince anyone. 200 does not make a print run unless you are making a high price book. Some academic books will be done in print runs of 200 but they often cost £60-70 each.

It is possible now to have print runs of 1 but costs will be high and it is really only suitable for text-only and text and diagram books. Photos will not come out too well. You may look at the costs of these and decide self-publishing is possible but how are you going to sell them?

Or even holding pre-paid orders in some kind of account which would be realised upon publication help?

kev35

Publishers do this anyway if they can, after all if they can have the cashflow they are going to be happy. Even then, it comes back to the difference in what people tell you they will order and what they do order when the crunch comes!

I hate to say this in this way, but if you have to get that desperate to get the book published then it could well be that there is no reason to do it in the first place and no market. That will inevitably come across as a harsh statement when you see it in black and white but it is the truth.

Chasing a dream in getting your ideal book published can cost you dearly and I would not like to see that happen. I am, however always happy to be proven wrong.

The bottom line is that it is a product and needs to be sold in order to justify its existence. Merely “publishing” something is nothing more or less than self-graitification. If it doesn’t get in front of a reader then it is only a waste of trees.

As a previous poster said, if the idea is a good one keep with it (see bit above about proving me wrong) and as I said previously there are times when an idea cannot be taken up by a publisher for a variety of reasons that do not mean they wouldn’t take it if circumstances were different.

Oh yes, another thing with self-publishing. It is a very good way of finding out how much paper weighs! This week I will order 4,000 copies of a book that weighs the best part of 1 kilo. That is 4 tonnes of paper! A truck will arrive and they will have to be loaded in, by hand. I will then ache and then I have to sell them.

Just guess what financial risk I have in that!

Self-publishing can be done but it is not wise. Remember my book is a second edition of one that was snapped up on the phone by the original publisher. 12 years on they refused to do a second edition and told me that if I was that clever I could always do it myself. Well, I may not have been clever but I had been listening and learning over those 12 years!

I hope this is helping,

Melvyn Hiscock
NBS Publications

Have you thought of testing the water by submitting articles to the mags?? I’ve gone down that route and found that they’ll publish my articles and so am now considering a couple of books on the back of this. I know there is a market for the stuff I’m writing so hopefully….. (and have got paid for most of it!) so it may be a worthwhile option in the interim?? I would follow the same advice by concentrating on one publisher who likes your ideas as this makes it a lot easier in the long run.

Originally posted by Mark12
Q. – How do I make a small fortune writing aviation books?

A. – Start with a large one. 😉

Mark

How about if you’re not that interested in making money? That the crux of the whole thing for a potential author is to honour someone’s wishes and provide a tribute to that person and their colleagues? Is self publishing a viable proposition if it comes to that? Would providing a publisher with say 200 letters of intent to purchase the publication make any difference? Or even holding pre-paid orders in some kind of account which would be realised upon publication help?

Regards,

kev35

Just a couple of points in addition to those made by Melvyn.

The first book is the hardest to get published. When I had the idea for ‘Rapid Fire’, I wrote a detailed summary and the entire first chapter, and carefully researched which publishers would be most likely to be interested before I started sending it out. Even so, I had three or four refusals before it was accepted (amusingly, someone closely associated with one publisher told me after the book had emerged that he wished I’d asked them as he would have loved to produce it – his firm were one of the refusers…).

Once the book emerged and was modestly successful (I endorse every word about not doing it to make money…), the publisher was very receptive to my other ideas, and even asked me to consider writing books on related subjects. Establishing a good relationship with a publisher is extremely important to continued publishing sucess.

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and Discussion forum

Eddie & RobAnt

That’s a good idea, I never thought of it. In fact, maybe I should have done because a guy called Osvaldo Durana built a full-size Spitfire replica and made an e-book on it, which he sent me for free as I advertised his plane for sale on my site.

I printed it off, fair enough it’s in black and white, but it’s still readable…

Hello chaps.

I agree that books of limited interest are best published as E-Books. A personal experience of this is that my Grandfather has written a series of books about the vehicles produced by an East Suffolk company. He published all of them himself with a limited print run, and to complete the story of the company, a book needed writing about a subject that has less appeal – it would sell far less copies than would be required to justify a print run. The book has been completed and he’s made it available on CD, as a PDF file. He’s not got any illusions of making large amounts of money out of it, but it tells a story worth getting down on paper, and it’s readily available.

If one wanted a bound copy, you could of course go to somewhere that prints and binds theses for university students. I’m not sure of the costs (presumably not cheap), but you’d get a proper book.

Just an idea, but the future might be in self publication & eBooks.

I can help anyone who would like to set up a website selling their own, and others, works.

The principle being that the buyer pays for access to the book in electronic format, who can then download it, and can either print it or keep it in electronic format.

There are tools for securing the content too. For instance, I produce all my invoices in Adobe Acrobat (PDF) format, and this makes the content uneditable by anyone other than me (indeed, I could also make them unprintable, if I so wished).

As for all the other legal stuff surrounding book publishing, well I’m sure Melvyn knows how to resolve those particular issues. My skills only go so far as making the finished book accessible.

Of course this solution isn’t so “tactile” and more difficult to flaunt on a coffee table, unfortunately.

Originally posted by dhfan
Melvyn
I haven’t got the WWI book but you got some of my loot for the guitar book!

Oh YOU’RE the person that bought it . . .

Melvyn

Melvyn
I haven’t got the WWI book but you got some of my loot for the guitar book!

Thanks,

I just wish it had earned some decent money!

What I got wasn’t bad for ten days work but it wasn’t brilliant either. I am lucky as I can write quickly. If I had to labour over the things it would not be worth it.

Melvyn

One of my favourites of its kind, that one! That and Jeremy Flack’s Spitfire books 🙂