Avro airliners

….why did they bother with Lancastrians when the York could have been churned out instead ?

I always took it that the Lancastrian was to be a longer range and more comfortable (comparitively!) airliner, and the York really a transport with less range, but higher and easier load capability. The Tudor was different as in being new design with pressurization (often not working) which was an advancement at the time.

I’m unsure if Avro had wind tunnels or not, maybe RAE assisted, certainly quick into the jet delta business after the war.

Avro Airliners

Did Avro have a decent wind-tunnel early in WWII…..did all their designs around then need an ‘evolutionary’ period?….the Lancaster had to be evolved from the unsatisfactory Manchester….the ‘unhappy’ Tudor as AJ Jackson called it took a painful amount of development…..why did they bother with Lancastrians when the York could have been churned out instead ?

During BOAC days and carried on well into the post BEA/BOAC merger when it had become BA, extra pay was awarded within engineering for those doing ‘dirty’ jobs, usually toilet related but also involving fuel and oil. This was known as ‘Monkey Money’ from those earlier days when monkeys were carried, rotted the bottom out of the fuselage as well but thats a different story.
Sorry if this is leading off track so smack my wrists and its back to Yorks and Tudors please.

Ricard

Yorks at Stanstead

Hi Old Shuck and Keith.
Late reply as I have been away.
Yes I well remember those Yorks that carried the rhesus monkeys. You could smell them from 50 yards! Some of them were actually converted back for passengers. I started with Aviation Traders in 1959 to service the “new” Bristol Britannias, worked at Stanstead hanger 1 and also at Southend for Air Charter on the old Bristol freighters and the Convairs.
I left in 1961 to work for the Royal Aircraft Establishment so I probably just missed you. I was an electrical fitter.
Here is an old pic I took in Gibralter in the 1950s

Paddy R

Thanks for that Keith , yes I also spent a lot of time at the airport as I lived in Elsenham and used to bike to Tye Green and watch from the perimiter fence.
I eventually finished up working for Aviation Traders at hanger 1

Very happy days

The enquiry was prompted by reading about the Berlin Airlift, and I wondered what the British aircraft industry was doing whilst the US was filling the sky with Connies and DCs

Extremely busy, both Yorks and Tudors were heavily used in the Berlin airlift, infact the aforementioned Tudor IV that crashed at Llandow was used as a fuel carrier. Lancastrians, Lancasters & Haltons were aslso used as freighters and fuel carriers.

Very generally, at the time the British industry, under the guise of the Brabazon commitee and its specifications, were too preoccupied by the Brabazon and SARO Princess, and were pushing the Avro Tudor and Handley Page Hermes into use, and planning for the future with DH Comet, Vickers Viscount and Bristol Britannia. A plethora of smaller types were being designed and produced, including the Vickers Viking, DH Dove & Heron, Percival Merganser / Prince, CO Concordia, Miles Marathon.
There was definately a massive capability gap at wars end, when unsuitable Lancastrians etc were being used for long range flights, this is where we had to buy American, and even Canadian by buying their successful Canadair North Star (BOAC Argonaut) to fill the Tudor gap.
We certainly looked behind until the Viscount came on stream.

dailee1,

The Hastings at Newark [location of the Ashton] is a veteran from ‘Operation Plainfare’ – when it first arrived at Newark in 1977 there was still coal dust lodged in the airframe structure under the cabin floor!

http://www.newarkairmuseum.org/aircraftlist.htm

Many thanks to all the contributors to this thread. The enquiry was prompted by reading about the Berlin Airlift, and I wondered what the British aircraft industry was doing whilst the US was filling the sky with Connies and DCs

As a boy at Stansted (born 1948) and spending every spare moment at the airport, I remember so many Yorks, from Skyways, Lancashire Aircraft Corp, Scottish Aviation etc…
Yes Old Shuck the Constellations were there too, oh happy days !!!
I remember the local talk of freighting monkeys in crates, something to do with their rhesus blood group ????? and talk of how their urine was rotting the aircraft structure ????
Can remember standing beside a Skyways York one day whilst they struggled to load some Lotus racing cars through the cargo door .. with great difficulty, huge difference in technology there that day ????
And of course there was a large gathering of Tudors, in many forms, courtesy of Freddie Laker and Aviation Traders.

There is a lot of very good detailed work on York and other aircraft in this supurb book, published last year, hopefully a link to the website below !

http://www.flywiththestars.co.uk/index.htm

Keith.

Is it true that BOAC used their Yorks on the ‘animal freight’ run in the mid-50’s? They were crewed (or so common scuttlebutt had it) by those who had transgressed the BOAC Rules at the ‘posher’ end of their operations and got sentenced to 3-months, or 6-months (depending on the severity of their crime(s)) flogging these Yorks from Africa to Europe. We had a number through El Adem at the time!
Resmoroh

I saw a York or two on cattle runs through Darwin around 1960. Could they have been the same Yorks?

Bri 🙂

Paddy I worked for “Traders” in the early sixties and have memories of Skyways having Yorks at Stansted did they also have Constellations as well ?

How complete is the WB491 inside? Would love to see pics!

A good question Pagen, I’m not 100% certain I’m afraid – but perhaps relatively incomplete. When it first arrived there were plans to turn it into an education aid, but so far that has not progressed beyond an idea.

Recently I know there have been posts elsewhere about what is planned for the Ashton, which is a ‘Significant’ airframe on the National Aviation Heritage Register. I understand that as the museum tries to develop facilities on its own land that the positioning of the Ashton might have to remain ‘flexible’ until everything else is in position.

At the end of this month the volunteers who work on site have been invited to contribute to some preliminary discussions how the Southfield Site [the land that the museum owns] will be developed in the future; so more detail might come out of that process.

Next time I visit the museum I’ll enquire about access to the Ashton and try to get some pictures of the inside!

As a footnote I believe that Newark’s Sea Venom also came from Rhoose in 1983/4. [Proof reading again!!] 😀

I well remember Yorks flying into stansted in the late 50s loaded with monkeys to manufacture Salk vacine against polio. How times change!!

Paddy R

I’m also advsied that WB491 spent some time down your way – Rhoose Airport I believe, before going back up to Woodford.

Yes it was part of the S.Wales aircrfaft museum at Cardiff airport. I wasn’t living here then but I did visit it twice, the last time shortly before the awful shut down and scrapping of some the exhibits.
I always remember the Ashton, think I was the only one in group who knew what it was, same trip even incurred an argument about the Hermes fuse at Duxford, some calling it a Britannia.

How complete is the WB491 inside? Would love to see pics!

BOAC Yorks

Is it true that BOAC used their Yorks on the ‘animal freight’ run in the mid-50’s? They were crewed (or so common scuttlebutt had it) by those who had transgressed the BOAC Rules at the ‘posher’ end of their operations and got sentenced to 3-months, or 6-months (depending on the severity of their crime(s)) flogging these Yorks from Africa to Europe. We had a number through El Adem at the time!
Resmoroh

Previos Discussions

Here are a couple of links to some previous information on the Canadian Yorks.

They were abused – ridden hard and put away cold and wet. The only ones left in Canada are the wrecks left in the great white north. There was a complete one located in The Pas Manitoba in the late 60s but it ended up outside and was set on fire by the locals!! Pretty sad end for this aircraft.

http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=85397

If you scroll all the way to the end of the information there is another link posted there.

The “Piston Airliners” book noted earlier has all the details and even though it is factual and dry reading has some really good information.

Regards,

Truc

And Lancashire Aircraft Corporation from Bovingdon c1951

The use of the Avro York by
1 x SouthAfrican airline
2 x Lebanese airlines
1 x Argentinian airline
2 x Canadian Airlines
1 x Iranian airline
seems to be over looked 😉

🙂 No problem Pagen – it’s just that I’ve been doing some proof reading of the new Guide Book for a certain aviation museum and that prompted my observation! 😀

This latest edition seems to have a new picture of the Ashton included.

I’m also advsied that WB491 spent some time down your way – Rhoose Airport I believe, before going back up to Woodford.

Taking the Post title literally – we should not forget the Avro Canada C102 Jetliner

here is a Wiki page on it

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avro_Canada_Jetliner