Avro Lancaster question..

Thanks for the info gents. Have had login issues thanks fully fixed, hence the lack of reply from me.

From the article in ‘Lancaster At War 1’ the authors say the nose would maintain it’s identity particuarly if it bore nose-art or an emblem, as the RAF wanted Lanc’s repaired and tested to replace the losses as fast as possible one with a mix of Packards or Rolls-Royce Merlins wasn’t unknown most likely, in ‘At War 3’ they say some pilots preferred the B1’s as the RR Merlins weren’t so prone to overheating on the ground. Today PA474 probably has a Packard or two fitted on it, whatever in their stock is ‘zero-houred’ and fits!

Why, when the serial number is painted on the tail section, did the nose section retain the identity of a Lancaster going through a major rebuild? And did that mean that a (Merlin) BI could enter a rebuild and emerge as a (Packard) BIII?

Hybrid BI / BIII were apparently produced with both Merlin and Packard engines; is this true?

Also if there was more than one site producing Lancaster fuselages isn’t it possible that the different sites deleted fuselage windows at slightly different times (so that a ‘later’ serial may have windows and an ‘earlier’ serial not).

Exactly – it’s not that it would have been NEW in 1944, it’s just that the components would all have been sent through different lines in the overhaul facility, and it was unlikely that they would have all got to the end at the same time – a Lanc broke down into a lot of major assemblies (off the top of my head – wingtips, outer wings (with detachable trailing edges), centre section (with detachable trailing edges), rear centre fuselage, rear fuselage, tailplane (both sides), fins/rudders, and obviously all moving components, turrets, control surfaces. I think the largest section is about 30′ long.

As Captain Slow says, the nose section retained the serial number, and everything else was just what was ready at the time.

There is a photo of R5868 in Garbett and Goulding’s ‘Lancaster At War 3’ having a major rebuild rebuild in 1944 at Bracebridge Heath minus the nose section, in ‘Lancaster At War 1’ they explain how when the Lanc’s were rebuilt it was ‘first off the line’ which meant that very rarely would an airframe’s major parts be reunited back together, only the nose would keep it’s original identity, a picture shows the serial number chalked on the side of a nose section awaiting it’s fuselage.

And R5868 had the windows until its rebuilding in July1944. That was of course a case of an aircraft being completely “gone through” and updated – it seems likely that the only surviving assembly of the original aircraft is the nose section.

Does this mean that the R5868 we have at Hendon today is the original nose with most of the rest of the plane being new built summer of 1944 construction?

Thanks for that Eddie. I will dig around in the files somemore…

And R5868 had the windows until its rebuilding in July1944. That was of course a case of an aircraft being completely “gone through” and updated – it seems likely that the only surviving assembly of the original aircraft is the nose section.

It would be great if Avro Heritage could pin down a date for the change as I’ve never seen reference to it before.

From my own research, I think Eddie has it about right, i.e. sometime in late 1943.

However, there are always unanswered questions, e.g. did the change happen mid-contract or was it introduced at the start of a new batch? Was the change made retrospectively to existing airframes and if so, when and how was this done? Did some units simply paint (or perhaps patch over) the perspex to prevent it from reflecting searchlights, and does this make it difficult to interpret grainy, wartime photos properly?

It’s interesting to note that the section of Johnny Walker (W4964) at Newark Air Museum still has its windows in situ, and this was a fairly early aircraft which survived until the end of the war.

Peter – I think it was after the end of the ED series. If you take a lok at ED932, for example (Gibson’s aircraft on the dams raid), it’s pretty close to the end of the series and had windows. EE139 (Phantom of the Ruhr) also had the windows. It seems like the mod was introduced in mid to late 1943.

Thanks Oldshape! I found out that the windows were dropped around 43 or so during the ED production series.

Were the Lancs with said windows built using a fuselage originally designed for use with the Manchester?

Does anyone know exactly when the smaller fuselage windows were discontinued on the British built Lancaster Bombers?

No, but I now a man who does. Please contact: –

Avro Heritage Group, BAE SYSTEMS, Woodford Aerodrome, Chester Road, Woodford, Cheshire, SK7 1QR. Tel: 0161 955 4182.

They still have access to all the drawings, most of which are archived by another society if I remember correctly.