AVRO Woodford

Really – is that a technical assessment or an attempt at a humour?

speaking from expierience old chap, a ****** for maintenance but they fly well.

…that is how they are displaying U234…!

I didn’t know that…..good to see some rapid progress in any preservation sphere!

While its regrettable she has been sectioned I actually think it gives a better and more accessible view of the interior than you got when she was at the Warships Preservation Trust.

I bow to your actual experience of the museum. My only real concern was the way the U-534 had been positioned. I’m not so concerned that it has been cut-up, so that the interior can be viewed, but I think much of the sheer scale of the U-boat has been lost by ‘bending’ it round the site, and viewing it from a convenient ‘ground’ level.

I was lucky enough to go inside the U-534 when she was still whole at Birkenhead, and what an experience that was, but unacceptable by today’s standards of public access and safety.

Still, unique, preserved, in the UK and displayed (£5!)…..and as you say not scrapped! 🙂

On the contrary.. that is how they are displaying U234…! The display opened last year with a small museum alongside displaying artifacts and putting everything in a historical context…

I’ll probably get flamed to death for this but I actually think its a pretty good little museum. The artifacts are displayed sympathetically with notes on the human, technological and political significance. While its regrettable she has been sectioned I actually think it gives a better and more accessible view of the interior than you got when she was at the Warships Preservation Trust.

At the end of the day the only other option was sell her for scrap.

right.. back on topic… anyone fancy starting a woodford wrecks and relics thread…?

Zeb

…the contrast between the remarkably poor and gappy preservation of Britain’s 20th century maritime heritage as against the breadth of the aviation sector’s success is notable. A preservable carrier, the last British survivor, went to India for scrap; a major destroyer(?) type languishes in Egyptian ownership due to funding shortfall, and several historic W.W.II era ships scrapped within sight of preservation in the 1950s and 60s. (The fact that the Windermere Steamboat Museum remains closed is something I find sad and remarkable.) Bridging the gap, the lack of a single airworthy British designed maritime aircraft anywhere in the world is shameful (unless you know different).

However, otherwise very poor for a ‘maritime nation’.

Yes, a preserved aircraft-carrier would be nice, since Britain almost unbelievably scrapped every single battleship, and there is still one last chance with HMS Hermes (INS Viraat), laid down during D-Day(!), when the Indian Navy have finished with her. On past experience I won’t hold my breath…..despite her long and glorious history!

You forgot to mention the sad closure of the Warship Preservation Trust at Birkenhead, Falklands veterans HMS Plymouth and HMS Onyx plus the unique U-534, sunk by a Costal Command Liberator, and raised from the seabed in 1993.

By the way this is how it is intended to display U-534! 😡

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Zz212007uboat3.jpg

On the brighter side Britain has much to be thankful for; HMS Warrior, HMS Victory, HMS Belfast, HMS Cavalier (and Chatham Dockyard), SS Great Britain (a miracle; it can be done, and its benefactor saved the Vulcan too), Cutty Sark, HMS Gannet, HMS Plymouth and hoping there is still a chance for HMS Whimbrel.

I still hope to see a Walrus flying in British skies…..or even just floating in British waters.

Well off-topic, sorry. 😮

Ask any BAE employee about the trees at the Poynton end of the runway and how it has affected the Nimrod project.

Helping to hide some of this disasterously mismanaged project ??? :diablo:

Mosquito RR299 was based at Hawarden, or Broughton but not Chester, which is in England.

Paul

We always referred to the factory/airfield at Hawarden as Chester – still do in fact.

Looks like others call it Chester too.

http://www.chesterairport.co.uk/

four oil leaks connected by an electrcal fault

Really – is that a technical assessment or an attempt at a humour?

Anyway – back on topic. The attitudes of BAE Systems seems to have changed in the last few years. The site at Woodford is worth a lot of money and as BAE is a commercial operation, it has no real obligation as far as heritage goes. Recently the company has provided support to projects such as Airspace at Duxford, the AVRO 19 G-AHKX and getting the RJX to Manchester. Preserving hangars and airfields will be step too far though.

Woodford would be an ideal GA/business airfield, especially when the Manchester airport link road is complete. NIMBYism is, however, rife in the area. Ask any BAE employee about the trees at the Poynton end of the runway and how it has affected the Nimrod project.

If memory serves me right the Andover is/was G-APZV, the prototype. Also, thinking back to the white bits around the radiation shed, these were present when I first started at Woodford in ’75 and the Victor XH670 was still reasonably complete then.

Thought it might be the prototype… Im curious thought… what was the radiation shed…?

Having thought back to ’81 i seem to remember seeing some white bits round that area as well…

Zeb

BAE 146’s

four oil leaks connected by an electrcal fault

Mosquito RR299 was based at Hawarden, or Broughton but not Chester, which is in England.

Paul

If memory serves me right the Andover is/was G-APZV, the prototype. Also, thinking back to the white bits around the radiation shed, these were present when I first started at Woodford in ’75 and the Victor XH670 was still reasonably complete then.

Mosquito RR299 was based at Chester. Still a sad loss.

Many thanks for all the replies, it has been really interesting reading. If anyone has any photos I would love to see them, Ive got a couple somewhere of what looks like Nimrod conversions from a while back, Ill dig them out.

Aside from XM603 is there anything else of historic note still at the airfield? Am I right in thinking the last Mosquito was based there before it was lost?

MH

Nothing except a few bits of Nimrod and couple of RJ/RJX sections. The RJX prototype G-ORJX is still outside, used as a training airframe. The prototype ATP was broken up a few months ago.

The Mosquito was never based at Woodford but it was a Woodford pilot, Kevin Moorhouse, that was killed when it was lost at Barton

On thinking about my visit the date was definitely March 1992 so that probably rules out the fatigue test airframe… Serials UK gives 1979 as the break up date for XH670 however i can remember seeing a white Victor over by the flight sheds at the 1981 airshow… iirc there might also have been a pile of Victor parts in the sheds opposite the spot where XM603 now stands…

Speaking of the ’81 airshow here is a shot of a 748 fuselage that had been put out to grass by then… curiously it was fenced off with radiation warning symbols on the fence… anyone know the ID…? (i’ve already tried this in my first post a couple of years back but hey its worth a second try…! :rolleyes:)

Also found an interesting shot on airliners.net of XV257 before her scrapping showing the extent of spares recovery…

XV257

Zeb

Many thanks for all the replies, it has been really interesting reading. If anyone has any photos I would love to see them, Ive got a couple somewhere of what looks like Nimrod conversions from a while back, Ill dig them out.

Aside from XM603 is there anything else of historic note still at the airfield? Am I right in thinking the last Mosquito was based there before it was lost?

MH

Does anyone who worked at Woodford remember the passenger SABENA Boeing 737 which landed at Woodford mistakening it for Manchester Ringway? (I believe these aparts may be some 6 miles apart) Can anyone shed any further information on this incident?

It did, but its engines and intakes were removed for radiation testing purposes.
However it seems the Woodford chunks were white so wouldn’t fit with ‘190

Agree wholehartedly with AK and JDK, however it is sad to see some of the factory sites go.

I had assumed they were talking about the stress airframe. That was located at Woodford. It being scrapped in 93-94 would be about right. 190 was scrapped much later I believe.

I thought that XL190 went to St Mawgan and was scrapped there.

It did, but its engines and intakes were removed for radiation testing purposes.
However it seems the Woodford chunks were white so wouldn’t fit with ‘190

Agree wholehartedly with AK and JDK, however it is sad to see some of the factory sites go.

Possibly from XL190, its Conway engines, complete with ripped off intake sections, went for radiation testing – I didn’t know where, but sounds like the above.

I thought that XL190 went to St Mawgan and was scrapped there.

I get the general impression that this country is ashamed of its past achievements.

UK is far from “ashamed” – see the whole Heritage Industry, stimulated by Lottery funding….

As Alertken says. It would be hard to think of a country that has more funding, infrastructure and investment, per capita in its heritage than England (notably Scotland, N Ireland and Wales trail the Home Counties bias, nevertheless the UK would be ahead of anywhere as a group as well). And draws people from all over the world to appreciate it, from Ironbridge to Duxford.

Like the continual lament about the next airfield that disappears, you can’t save it all, but of what has been created and is there to be celebrated, the UK remains ahead. Even the US, probably the next country on the list with a per-capita heritage industry has a remarkable number of gaps and ease of destruction of heritage in contrast to the UK.

Of course that’s the big picture. Closer to home, and more specifically, the contrast between the remarkably poor and gappy preservation of Britain’s 20th century maritime heritage as against the breadth of the aviation sector’s success is notable. A preservable carrier, the last British survivor, went to India for scrap; a major destroyer(?) type languishes in Egyptian ownership due to funding shortfall, and several historic W.W.II era ships scrapped within sight of preservation in the 1950s and 60s. (The fact that the Windermere Steamboat Museum remains closed is something I find sad and remarkable.) Bridging the gap, the lack of a single airworthy British designed maritime aircraft anywhere in the world is shameful (unless you know different). Good for the Bluebird team to do something that touches the Lakes, aviation and maritime all together. However, otherwise very poor for a ‘maritime nation’. in contrast, therefore, the remarkable richness and diversity of Britain’s preserved aviation is something to be grateful for (while working to keep it good).

Just a thought.

UK is far from “ashamed” – see the whole Heritage Industry, stimulated by Lottery funding. Airfields are few now because the military ones have done the job of helping dispose of our enemies, and UK Aero Industry has morphed into “supplier” of bits for cross-border end-products. Cars/trucks same, as the cost/complexity of engineering products exceeded the resources, or appetite, of any one country. Better to make bits of lots of Ford Fiestas – the first “Worldcar”, than all of the All-Agro, and to make most of the wing of lots of Airbuses (and bits of lots of Boeings, as BAE does), than all of some lesser species. Little of 146/RJ was fabricated at Hatfield, none, I think, at Woodford (AVCO wing; SAAB, then Prestwick back end).

Woodford was an Air Ministry Agency Factory opened April,1939, managed by Avro, to relieve little Newton Heath. Its Assembly/Flight Test function from late-1939 included Manchesters, then Lancasters from Trafford Park shadow Metro-Vick. A.M chose sites for the 1936/39 Expansion Programme which:
– had access to labour – in NW England, largely incomer Irish;
– lay at some distance from the (assumed German-based) Luftwaffe;
– would not fish in the same scarce labour pool as plants serving WO/RN;
– and were rail/land convenient to their engine/component sources (no Motorways, few arterial roads). So for Woodford: RR’s Crewe Agency (Vulture), Bristol’s Accrington Agency (Avro’s shadow Blenheim IVs’ Mercury), and Ford’s Eccles shadow (Merlin) plants.
With Peace most Munitions sites moved to generate, not consume taxes: quite right too, innit? Woodford outlasted larger, kit-superior Castle Bromwich and Avro Yeadon sites.