B-17 at Biggin Hill

Roger Freeman’s article in the August Air Pic quotes N5232V as being DF-V 122762, with a photo to prove it.

My photo shows DF-V but 122761 ( although serials were changed during filming ).

As he says N5229V was DF-T and remained at Manston it now seems possible that although DF-V was going to be scrapped at Bovingdon it actually flew to Biggin Hill for scrapping, possiblty as the MoD storage charges were higher at Bovingdon. So my photo appears to be N5232V.

Here is a link with some manston photos ,mostly taken during filming some 1969 film 🙂 but there is one of a B17 at Manston…

http://www.kenthistoryforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=5925.0

I must admit …I assumed that the Manston a/c stayed there for scrapping,they may have been in a bit of a mess after filming the battle damage scenes (no cgi ;))

some info in this link…

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=B-17+N5229V&source=web&cd=4&ved=0CGMQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pbase.com%2Feasystreet%2Fnotes_on_the_filming&ei=XqTdT7TaHNON0wW8vuzCCg&usg=AFQjCNHqTTU5uoePWlUd3V16DkT5V-MX6Q

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The B17 at Croydon was I belive obtained from Israel. Any one interested in the film should track down a copy of the book Everything but the flak.

B17 Croydon

I seem to recall that there was a B17 fuselage at Croydon (outside the old terminal) which was the subject of an ‘import’ situation.

At the time, B17’s were by no means rare, and still a working aeroplane.

They were firebombing in some numbers in the USA ( with quite a few losses ) and the IGN in France were still scrapping Forts into the 1970’s.

I remember at the time writing to the film company requesting information on the disposal of the aircraft and shortly afterwards a stern editorial appeared in ‘Control Column’ (who remembers?) requesting that people refrain from pestering the film company on this subject. 😮

I would have also thought that having come to the attention of HM Customs ~ it would have to remain on an airport with a Customs presence until either the import duties were paid or it was processed to fly out of the country or …… it was reduced to scrap on site.

I’ve always assumed therefore that at the end of filming ~ the two B-17’s that remained in England never left Manston.

🙂

So the country gained nothing in revenue and the public gained no static airframe to view as a reminder of what it had gone through

That sums up the situation pretty well. I can’t remember the exact figure but it seems to ring a bell that Ray mentioned that customs wanted something like £250+ in duty – a lot of money in the 60’s particularly for a recently established museum that was run on a shoestring.
Don’t forget that in those days the preservation movement had barely started and few understood the desire to preserve old aeroplanes. It was also a comparatively short time after the war had ended and many chose to forget the horrors and deprivation brought about by the war and the last thing they would have wanted to see was a B-17 – not only a reminder of the war but also a reminder of the American Air Force whose presence wasn’t exactly welcomed with open arms by some sections of the population.
I got the impression from Ray that, for valuation purposes, Customs viewed it as an airworthy aircraft and duty was calculated accordingly. They weren’t interested in the fact that the prospective owner had neither the intention or funds to fly it. I would imagine that much the same applies today for valuation purposes.
We should also remember that things have moved on a long way and in those days it was very much a case of if a government dept quoted a figure that was what you paid. Negotiations just weren’t an option and the chances of getting your local MP to contest the customs charge on an aeroplane that they would probably view as an old crock were almost nil.
It was a sad loss to the preservation world but it is to his credit that Peter Thomas did at least make an attempt to save the B-17 and it was a lack of foresight by a goverment dept that thwarted his efforts – a familiar story?

Import

In all fairness to HMRC now, if the correct import tariff is used when importing an old aeroplane, or parts thereof, then they can be imported free from import duty, and the appropriate VAT is 5% rather than the usual 20%.

That’s now however, I cannot comment as for then.

The B-17 N5229V which was at Biggin Hill after filming the War Lover is reported in the Warbirds Directory as having been broken up at Manston.

I saw it less ailerons and elevators – was the directory correct ?

I have always believed that once the principal filming at Bovingdon was completed in November 1961, the three aircraft – 44-83883 (N5229V), 44-83877 (N5232V) and 44-83563 (N9563Z) were moved to Manston to film the over-channel scenes that brought the film to its conclusion. This then begs the question is it certain that the picture location is Biggin Hill?

So the country gained nothing in revenue and the public gained no static airframe to view as a reminder of what it had gone through – only the scrap value was retreived by someone… sounds like typically inflexible officialdom doesn’t it?
Did nobody haggle on the basis of the actual value of an airframe no longer fit for purpose (flying) ?
Was some kind of payment asked for the aircraft ? Presumably HM Customs had their own view of what it was worth in order to levy a tax on it even if not.

Several years ago I met Ray Thomas who told me that the B-17 was offered to his father for the Skyfame Museum but HM Customs intervened and said that import duty would have to be paid if the aircraft was to become a permanent import for the museum but no duty was payable if it was broken up.
Skyfame couldn’t afford to pay the duty so the B-17 was scrapped but I can’t confirm where this happened. It seems unlikely that they refitted the control surfaces just to fly it to Manston for scrapping.