By: Black Knight - 19th January 2005 at 23:17
Me too, don’t by any chance have a photo of Haydon-Baillie flying his Sea Fury under the wire between the hanger & control tower do you?
By: duxfordhawk - 19th January 2005 at 23:15
I think it was just that it just wasn’t thought of in the same way as it is today. And that’s not just flying display’s, but everything including sport, the work place, thecars you drive etc. Don’t forget, these early photos of Don Bullock flying Sally B so low were only taken about 5 or 6 years after the wearing of crash helmet on a motorcycle had been made compulsary in the UK…
Very low flypast were the norm at displays in the UK and elsewhere ‘in the old days’.
There’s a famous photo of Hawkers test pilot, Bill Bedford, taken at a display in the 60’s, flying Hurricane PZ865 at cockpit height down between a static line-up of Lightnings and Shackletons…… 😮
I understand what you mean it was a different time and i wonder maybe we are wrong to compare it with todays flying, A lot of lessons were learned from those days i guess and we moved on.
I also agree with dees that low flying still goes on but you won’t see bombers or Aircraft of that size displayed so low these days and low flying these days is nowhere near the public so in general its far safer.
By: duxfordhawk - 19th January 2005 at 23:02
Yes…and I have a photo of it flying between the hangars at DX.
Different times.
Mark
I would like to see that photo.
By: Propstrike - 19th January 2005 at 21:54
Don’t mean to be contentious, but off the top of my head, I cannot think of many display pilots who have come to grief doing straight and level flypasts, even VERY low ones. Low level aeros though, I haven’t got enough fingers to count them.
( Actually, I have just remembered a Flamant that crashed in France, and hit a photographer whilst attempting doing a beat-up. Perhaps he was not a display pilot….)
By: T J Johansen - 19th January 2005 at 18:36
That’s the one. Finally ended its days (or at least the paperwork did) as ‘Temptation’, destroyed in Switzerland some years back (although it had had 2 accidents, one involving a double fatality, in the US between these times).
Ever since the Mustang Pilots Club bought the plane in 1972 (to replace their first 51, also lost in a fatal accident!):( it did have its share of trouble (Or as you say, the i.d. of the plane!). I don’t know how much work was needed to repair the a/c after the 1974 wheels up landing, but they changed the mainplane after the next accident, in 1977. Then Bill Barnes (son of famed aviatrix Pancho Barnes) and his passenger got killed in the newly rebuilt a/c in 1980. And then of course the i.d. got transferred to Bill Speers project and crashed in Europe in 1998. Sobering thought is that of the three P-51s Bill Speer rebuilt to airworthy standard, two crashed fatally. 🙁 If you have a thing for omens (I don’t), you will see that all three of his 51s have used the i.d. of Mustangs lost in fatal accidents!
T J
By: Mark12 - 19th January 2005 at 17:45
Yes, 1977. The year that the ‘Diables Rouges’ Magisters visited, also Robs Lamplough arranged a visit of a P-51D from the USA. First Mustang I ever saw. 🙂
Yes…and I have a photo of it flying between the hangars at DX.
Different times.
Mark
By: dees01 - 19th January 2005 at 15:59
there is also video footage of Bill Bedford displaying the prototype Hunter T7 at Farnborough where he is head height down the runway.
Incidently, low flying like this still happens. Witness the Belgian(?) Fouga Magister take off and subsequent low pass up the runway (and that thing’s not very high off the deck to start with!)
I have to say, though, low flypasts are one thing, what really worries me is low level aeros, especially low energy manoeuvres with insufficient recovery heights..
By: Firebird - 19th January 2005 at 14:48
Some of these photo’s are unbelievable i have never seen anything like it, I agree with Steve that the Duxford one looks tame compared, In some of these photo’s you would think the Aircraft is doomed, I guess it was at a day and age where Warbird industry was new and there had not been many accidents.
I think it was just that it just wasn’t thought of in the same way as it is today. And that’s not just flying display’s, but everything including sport, the work place, thecars you drive etc. Don’t forget, these early photos of Don Bullock flying Sally B so low were only taken about 5 or 6 years after the wearing of crash helmet on a motorcycle had been made compulsary in the UK…
Very low flypast were the norm at displays in the UK and elsewhere ‘in the old days’.
There’s a famous photo of Hawkers test pilot, Bill Bedford, taken at a display in the 60’s, flying Hurricane PZ865 at cockpit height down between a static line-up of Lightnings and Shackletons…… 😮
By: Dave Homewood - 19th January 2005 at 14:47
I think there’s a pic of this aircraft with MH434 in one or other of Jeremy Flack’s books.
Yes, in ‘Spitfire – A Living Legend’ just a few pages in. I wonder if it got bumblebees formating with it.
By: DazDaMan - 19th January 2005 at 14:42
I think there’s a pic of this aircraft with MH434 in one or other of Jeremy Flack’s books.
By: T J Johansen - 19th January 2005 at 14:37
Yes, 1977. The year that the ‘Diables Rouges’ Magisters visited, also Robs Lamplough arranged a visit of a P-51D from the USA. First Mustang I ever saw. 🙂
That would be the Mustang Pilots Club N5747 that Tony Ostermeier and another pilot brought across, wouldn’t it?
T J
By: patb - 19th January 2005 at 14:03
One pilot who thinks he can push things further than most is not that surprising. What is shocking (in hindsight) is that thousands of people (including hundreds from within the aviation/airshow industry) stood and watched this type of flying without seriously/officially calling into question the safety margins being used (or lack of them)..
Safety has to be part of a culture rather than just an individual’s responsibilty. By remaining silent when seeing this sort of thing……?
To sin by silence when they should protest makes cowards of men.”
— Abraham Lincoln
By: duxfordhawk - 19th January 2005 at 13:53
That Duxford shot is positively tame compared to the previous three. How times change. For the safer, I might add!
Some of these photo’s are unbelievable i have never seen anything like it, I agree with Steve that the Duxford one looks tame compared, In some of these photo’s you would think the Aircraft is doomed, I guess it was at a day and age where Warbird industry was new and there had not been many accidents.
I tend to agree he thought he was invinsible but he was proved wrong on that on at Biggin Hill 1980 , It was often said that the Invader crash was a landmark event in Airshow safety i thought it was just they stopped people flying as passengers on display flights, But i wonder if it it made other pilots think twice on how they display, In a fighter such low flying seems less dangerous and more acceptable fighters tend to react faster etc, In a bomber it looks plain scary.
By: Arabella-Cox - 19th January 2005 at 13:08
That Duxford shot is positively tame compared to the previous three. How times change. For the safer, I might add!
By: adrian_gray - 19th January 2005 at 13:06
Words acceptable on the forum fail me! I just can’t get my head round someone who – it seems quite regularly – pushed the limits so very hard. That first pass (possibly Andrewsfield again?) can’t be more than twenty feet, and he was even lower in the second photo. One misplaced sneeze… sparrow… you name it! How was he allowed to carry on flying?
(if that last point is sensitive, which I appreciate it could be – I am far too young to remember him – please PM me and I will pull it)
Adrian
By: B-17man - 19th January 2005 at 13:03
Duxford ’77 I believe
Could be later
________
DEPAKOTE INJURY LAWYER
By: PeeBee - 19th January 2005 at 12:58
The last two look like Grafton Underwood, this is exactly how I remember him displaying it, nightmare.
By: philip turland - 19th January 2005 at 12:48
how about these
Sally B and Don Bullock I believe.
sorry, don’t know who took the pics
By: T J Johansen - 18th January 2005 at 16:12
Talk about having a clue…
What can I say. People on this forum does have a clue. 😉 😀
T J
I am pretty sure that I can organize the Sion tape from a friend of mine living nearby – it will be a copy only, maybe a copy on DVD 😉
Cheers
Martin
A DVD is as good as gold. Just tell me where to send you a blank CD!
I believe I have a copy somewhere of the Germany trip, It was a BBC look east programe, with interviews with Ted White and Keith Sissons on the trip to Germany for an Airshow, They had to remove the ‘Swastika’s’ on the panel under the pilots window. I will have to try to dig it out
That is the one. Remember from the Sally B supporter club magazine of the time that they had to remove the swastikas. The Germans were not to keen on those! Same to you. Tell me where to send a tape, and it will be in the mail shortly!
Well, it took less than tvelwe hours to find the people who had a clue. Wonderful thing internet. Tried searching for these things before forums such as this, and got zilch. Today you snap your finger, and voila. There it is!
T J
By: D. Bergstrom - 18th January 2005 at 14:55
In my group, after a plane had an engine change, it had to be flown a few hours “slow time”. Several times I had the duty. Once, before doing a slow time, a ground officer asked me if he could go along for the ride. I readily agreed to take him. This was when I was based near Tunis, N.Africa. On a previous flight, I discovered a British base about 40 miles away, This base was made to order for a buzz job, a straight road, no obstructions and lots of traffic on a straight road at least 2 miles long.
I took off with my passenger in the nose, once aloft I asked the F/E to check the ball turett, to be sure that the guns were in a horizontal position. When I got to the area, everything was in order, lots of traffic and no aircraft to be seen. I dove down from several thousand feet, in low pitch. My first recollection was of an Arab driving a wagon of hay packed quite high, drawn by a mule. As I drew near the mule turned into a bucking bronco, and was off the road. The high point of the operation was a British lorry, going in my direction, the driver couldn’t see or hear me, there were soldiers in the open back. I was really too low because I had to pull up a little , as I got close to the lorry I saw the soldiers jumping out of the truck while it was moving. I quickly left the area because I knew that there would be repercussions. About a week later while a B17 was in the general area, a Spitfire came alongside and escorted him awy from the area. The Brit General complained to the American General and there was hell to pay, I never owned up to the escapade.
Thank you sir for sharing your wartime experiences with us!
Dennis
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January 17, 2005 at 11:24 am
