B767/A330 and charter airlines

bmi are also doing MFF with the 319/320/321 and 330.

Swings and roundabouts really, one manufacturer lets you fly 2 nearly the same size types on the same day while the other allows you to fly a regional jet size aircraft and a superjumbo on consecutive days. Each have their merits.

I have been doing a bit of digging around on the CCQ question and have only been able to confirm that the A318, A319, A320 and A321 come under the type heading of A320 and the A330 family comes under a seperate heading of A330. The CAA have been allowing crews to fly them concurrently but not to the extent that the 757/767 crews are. The 757/767 is a common type rating (source, LASORS, www.caa.co.uk). On the 75/76 we can fly the 2 back to back on the same day. AFAIK this is not permitted on the A320/A330. My search continues. I will let you know when I find out definitively.

I think they use them becasue it fits the tourist companies needs (e.g Thomsons) in the range and comfort also don’t need massive airports to fly from. Like Monarch

Monarch FBW pilots can operate 320/321 and 332.

I know one guy who at the moment flies British reg A346, A343 and Bulgarian registered A320.

I think the key here is the difference in registrations. I would even put money on the fact that the CAA don’t allow MFF in the same way as the 757/767.

The only costs involved are in ensuring everything is working. Some things not working will reduce the ETOPs rule time from 180mins to 120mins. I didn’t know Thai had stated that as a problem. ETOPs 180 is awarded as an upgrade to 120 once sufficient engineering coverage has been demonstrated, engine condition monitoring, crew training and that the company is demonstrating the aircraft is remaining within the in flight shut down (IFSD) criteria. As you can see this is the reason ETOPs approval isn’t given straight away.

There is no difference in costs involved in keeping 180mins and 120 mins so why not keep it going?

Really?

Wasn´t there a story about Thai giving up their ETOPS 180 because they could not afford to keep it, but retaining ETOPS 120?

I didn’t think they had cross crew qualification. I understood the CAA stopped it as the aircraft were too different in handling and size.

AFAIK it is still possible to do MFF (mixed fleet flying) between all modern Airbus products. In fact the CAA consider us to be doing it with the A343 and the A346 because of the large difference in performance. I know one guy who at the moment flies British reg A346, A343 and Bulgarian registered A320.

Do they really need that on Atlantic?

There is a rather small ETOPS 120 blind spot in the middle of Atlantic. Do charters bother with ETOPS 180, or just use ETOPS 120 and fly round (not a big detour)?

I would think that if there is any blind spot on the route that requires ETOPS-180, then surely yes, they would require it (at every point along the flight plan, the aircraft must be within the ETOPS (so at the ETOPS-180 point, they must have ETOPS-180) certification for diversion to an airport) – why take any detour when they could just get certified for ETOPS-180 – and then reduce costs, and be seen to be a ‘safety conscious’ airline when they do get ETOPS-180. the two types have ETOPS-180 certification anyway, so why not get certification for Operational approval?

the coursework actually specifies flights from the UK to the Carribean, so in this case, ETOPS-180 would be needed.

thanks for your help guys

We do use 180mins on the Caribbean flights in particular. While you may see the “detour” being only small, this is a big difference to an operator that may see that happening daily, in both directions. The costs add up very quickly. There is no difference in costs involved in keeping 180mins and 120 mins so why not keep it going?

i know that the two types require (and have) ETOPS-180 certification to allow them to do transatlantic flights (and that a specific operator needs to gain ETOPS certification), but what other certification would be required by an airline to operate long range flights from Europe to the US for example?

thanks

Do they really need that on Atlantic?

There is a rather small ETOPS 120 blind spot in the middle of Atlantic. Do charters bother with ETOPS 180, or just use ETOPS 120 and fly round (not a big detour)?

I didn’t think they had cross crew qualification. I understood the CAA stopped it as the aircraft were too different in handling and size.

The 767 is particularly popular due to it having cross qualification with the 757 meaning that with one set of crews the airline can crew both long and short haul flights. A lot more efficient than employing crew qualified solely for the one type and adds flexibility too…

Very true but the same can be said for the A330 with the A320 family as used by several UK charter carriers.

thanks for the info Hugh! 🙂

The 767 is particularly popular due to it having cross qualification with the 757 meaning that with one set of crews the airline can crew both long and short haul flights. A lot more efficient than employing crew qualified solely for the one type and adds flexibility too.

Initial certification is done when an operator decides they want to operate the aircraft. For a long time the NZCAA didn’t recognise the 757. Particular configurations may not be certified with the general type for example a 767 with only a speed tape and standby ASI (no conventional ASI) is not automatically certified by the CAA until flight crew training requirements are shown to prove the crews are trained to cope with the difference.

i know that the two types require (and have) ETOPS-180 certification to allow them to do transatlantic flights (and that a specific operator needs to gain ETOPS certification), but what other certification would be required by an airline to operate long range flights from Europe to the US for example?

thanks

thats beyond me there mate

note taken sorry

i know that the two types require (and have) ETOPS-180 certification to allow them to do transatlantic flights (and that a specific operator needs to gain ETOPS certification), but what other certification would be required by an airline to operate long range flights from Europe to the US for example?

thanks

true mate weve been to ncl loads of times even though its my local u get board of it MAN was something else though huge airport saw my first 747 was well chuffed

Luke, can’t you post with less slang and more punctuation please? I’m sick of reading messages like this, it’s okay for MSN and all the other chat programs, but not for an aviation forum. 🙂

Ahem…… is this a private conversation, or can anyone join in?

Drifting off-topic a bit, chaps.

GA