BA MAN-JFK

Ah well no real suprise there then! Was suprised the route lasted as long as it did following September 11th. MAN doesn’t need BA anymore. I never used the route, and never even thought of using it soon, so I won’t loose any sleep over BA’s demise from Manchester.

Give me a Pendolino over an Airbus now to London, as Andy said, much less hasle, and greener!

If all these assertions are true,as I’m sure they are,it does rather beg the question why did they retain this route in isolation,with the infrastructure that would have required,in the first place?I suspect the massive increase in fuel costs has a lot to do with it as does the fact that none of the US competition at MAN has yet given up the fight.T5 losses won’t have helped either.

B

Monday through to Thursday the load factor on the MAN-JFK route is dire, Club is mainly filled up with staff or pax recieving free upgrades.

Friday thru to Sunday is busier, i suspect with people using the service to have a long weekend or shopping in NY.

Only a point to point service, then the pax would have to get the shuttle down to Heathrow for onward connections.

In my own opinion, BA is better using its One World connections with AA to code share on the MAN-ORD route, opens up a helluva lot of connection possibilities.

Andy…………..I can’t disagree with your comments though I think to say to criticise the loss of something one has to have been a major supporter is a little strong.I think my point is being (dare I say deliberately?) misconstrued by some on this forum,in that it is because I agree entirely with an airline taking a commercial decision,I am questioning why so many enthusiasts see BA as still an “Airline for all the UK” and regard aggressive competitors almost as impostors.Apart from being a landmark in being the final Regional direct BA route,the one under debate is academic to my question but I’ve resolved myself to not getting an answer,or swaying people’s prejudices!

BTW – as a retired person I do not fly on business but am probably doing more leisure flights than most…..including last Fri and Sun and this coming Sat and Sun (from MAN with Flybe on an ex-BA route!!)

B

The question is though, how long until the shuttle service get’s quango’d ?

As a point-to-point route, MAN-LHR is going to be a dead duck – if the increasingly competitive nature and service of the train (versus the hassles of air travel these days) don’t get it, the “green” thinking surging through this government and its successor surely will sooner or later. The only thing that will sustain the route in the longer term is on-line connections, and IF we ever get the north-south high speed [rail] line (which is currently gaining renewed interest) the on-line connections are likely to go too as the line plans envisage a direct link through LHR.

A

To those who “rant” about the loss of such a service, the question is – how many times have YOU used the service over the last year or two? And if the answer isn’t that you’ve travelled on it several times or more (and ideally travelling on more than rock bottom fares), then you’re not the sort that’s helping to sustain the service.

Flights don’t exist for the satisfaction of the locals (observers of airline trends, spotters, or even airport operators) but for the passengers, who in turn are meant to make the airline some money. If the flight doesn’t pay (and from what I can gather MAN-JFK is very weak revenue wise) it goes. Very simple really – hyou can bet that if MAN-JFK was one of BA’s highest yielding routes, it’d still be operating. The people to blame for the loss of the service are those who live in the MAN catchment area, as they haven’t used the service enough [and/or at a high enough fare] to make it worthwhile for BA to run the service anylonger.

Andy

Actually,I’ve no problem with what is a business decision and I’m not essentially anti-BA,or any airline for that matter.
I think a couple of you understood that my “rant” if you feel it was one goes back months to the fact that so many on this forum (who I take to be aircraft fanatics like me) are so defensive of BA and so hostile to competitors to the point of wishing their downfall.
BTW,yes my reference to BHX etc was to airports where BA used to have a massive presence with based a/c and direct routes and,indeed,fought tooth and nail to keep it that way to themselves for half a century.

Barry

I think you make a good point re BA being the “former ‘state’ airline”. If that wasn’t the case I don’t think people would be quite so disappointed. But the fact remains that despite what many people think Britain does not have a state airline and flag carriers no longer exist. Whatever the name is it is just a name.

1L.

Indeed and I think in some way people see the decline of the former state airline as a metaphor for the decline of the nation at large. (wow that was bit profound for me !) 😀

I do feel disappointed however that the former ‘state’ airline is now in a completely different kind of state and that they continue to trade under the ‘British Airways’ moniker at a time when much of Britain continues to have it’s BA services withdrawn…

And I can entirely understand that disappointment, but on the name I think we just have to accept that they are NEVER going to give it up. It may be having a rough time at the moment, but it is still one of the most recognisable and respected brands in the world (although I sometimes wonder why!).

I think you make a good point re BA being the “former ‘state’ airline”. If that wasn’t the case I don’t think people would be quite so disappointed. But the fact remains that despite what many people think Britain does not have a state airline and flag carriers no longer exist. Whatever the name is it is just a name.

1L.

Some of you know that LHR MAN is my regular route. Over the last couple of years I’ve seen the pax profile change significantly from high yield ‘business point to point’ to low yield ‘leisure connections’, a perfect example of how nothing stays the same for long in commercial aviation.

I wonder if that will change again when the BBC moves much of it’s business out of central London to Salford Quays…?

Absolutely right! For what it’s worth I personally think BA should have a network linking the regions with key business destinations in Europe, if not around the world. Despite various business models the regions have long been a disaster for BA, perhaps of their own making in some ways, but a disaster nonetheless. No business can afford to be in an unsuccesful marketplace, so BA has moved out. Not personal, not anti-regions, just a business decision.

1L.

I don’t disagree with what you say, aviation these days is purely business, if it wasn’t always. And I don’t take any of BA’s business decisions as being ‘anti-regions’.

I do feel disappointed however that the former ‘state’ airline is now in a completely different kind of state and that they continue to trade under the ‘British Airways’ moniker at a time when much of Britain continues to have it’s BA services withdrawn…

how long until the shuttle service get’s quango’d ?

I think it’ll be a while coming yet, but I think it IS only a matter of time. Trains are getting faster, flying (or at least an air journey) is getting slower.

Some of you know that LHR MAN is my regular route. Over the last couple of years I’ve seen the pax profile change significantly from high yield ‘business point to point’ to low yield ‘leisure connections’, a perfect example of how nothing stays the same for long in commercial aviation.

So yes, concievably a point may well arrive where BA and other airlines feel they can do better things with aircraft, slots, etc.

Operating solely out of London is just a business decision…

Absolutely right! For what it’s worth I personally think BA should have a network linking the regions with key business destinations in Europe, if not around the world. Despite various business models the regions have long been a disaster for BA, perhaps of their own making in some ways, but a disaster nonetheless. No business can afford to be in an unsuccesful marketplace, so BA has moved out. Not personal, not anti-regions, just a business decision.

1L.

I know your having a rant here, and I can see why people flying from BHX wouldnt be flying anywhere with BA soon because British Airways don’t even fly from Birmingham, however the flights from MAN and Glasgow baffles me.
I mean British Airways flies to London (LGW, LHR and LCY) 19 times per day from Glasgow and to London (LGW and LHR) 16 times per day from Manchester.

I think the point being made is that GLA and MAN are no more than destinations from LGW/LHR, whereas the MAN-JFK service was a BA route not originating or ending up in London.

The question is though, how long until the shuttle service get’s quango’d ?

I do hope those who think they are such a service to the regions and “knock” what they see as inferior competition aren’t hoping to go anywhere soon with BA from MAN/BHX/GLA etc etc!!
Barry

I know your having a rant here, and I can see why people flying from BHX wouldnt be flying anywhere with BA soon because British Airways don’t even fly from Birmingham, however the flights from MAN and Glasgow baffles me.
I mean British Airways flies to London (LGW, LHR and LCY) 19 times per day from Glasgow and to London (LGW and LHR) 16 times per day from Manchester.

I think it is a good choice on BA’S part. Preferably i didnt like going direct from MAN as it only give you one choice and although the Depature and Arrival for JFK was perfect the Depature and Arrival For MAN is a disgrace!!

WE (as a family) hated this arrival time and would always try and get flights from NCL via LHR or go alteranitve with AF or KL.

The service from LGW on the other hand gives us a choice of going via LGW or LHR or even LGW outbound and LHR inbound which overall is alot better.

If today is owt to go by, those going to the likes of Exeter, Knock etc will be around for a while at MAN as they seem to be rather popular!

Operating solely out of London is just a business decision… apparently… isn’t it… ?

Good ‘Knock’ reference though…;)

Possibly,but don’t you think a rant is warranted?.In honesty,I hadn’t picked up on the “schedule changes” post but it hardly headlined the latest (or last even) desertion of an airport by BA,did it? To be fair,UK Airport News site reports even the airport authorities are angry.

Barry

This has already been posted…or was it just a little rant? 😀