BA plane evacuated after Arabic shouts

For the record… I challenged since I assumed that LFC24 was suggesting something that – for his 16 years of experience – seemed less than likely. Yet his answers suggested that he was slightly more familiar than I, so I just acknowledged his response.
I was also unsure of him saying that he had done Hajj (or Hadj according to my dictionary) in a different way, since a quick search on Google shows that all pilgrimage to Saudi Arabia is Hajj to Mecca – and the knowledge that, apparently, westerners are not at all welcome was the cause of my wavering emotions – so was left open to interpretation any way you want.

Flood

I think this has had a good airing now but to clear up any up any misunderstanding on “Westerners not at all welcome in Mecca” etc Anyone is welcome in Mecca of any race or colour (westerners included) provided they are Muslims. There are check points as you go into Mecca and anyone who is not a muslim is turned away (this can be seen from your visa or internal passport which is an offence not to have with you at all times). The road around Mecca is nicknamed the “Christian Bypass”. It is correct that any Muslim making a trip to Mecca for the purpose of Pilgrimage constitutes Haj (The spelling is virtually irrelevant just as it would be trying to convert English words into Arabic script) and there is a set period for this. Anyone making the same pilgrimage outside the set period is performing “Umrah” and still constitutes having undertaken the Haj which LFC24 has performed and fair play to him for having done it at such a young age.

You just really confused me there, so I guess I’ll stop now.

Did it really say this? Which site was it? Please do fill me in.

Maybe ‘all’ was a bit too specific, since I am unable to confirm 100% of all the sites that my search turned up.
But stick in Saudi and pilgrimage and you get Hajj (or Hadj) and Mecca.
Stick in Saudi and Hajj and you get Mecca and pilgrimage.
Give Saudi and pilgrimage but without the words Hajj, Haj, Hadj, Mecca, or Mekkah being mentioned… and you get sites about how all Muslims must complete such a pilgrimage at least once in their lifetime.
I apologise if you have a different view but that is what I found, and you have given little to substantiate your point – which you are certainly free to do.

Flood

I would like to comment on the last exchanges between LFC24 and FLOOD and put my tuppence worth in. I thought FLOODS questions were quite astute. LFC24 gives the impression he knows all about Arabs/muslims and has been on the Haj “in another way” which is quite impressive considering he is 16 years old and still at school and only appears to mention Dubai. I don’t claim to know everything about Muslim society but I grew up in the Muslim North in Nigeria and have worked in Abu Dhabi, Kuwait, Bahrain, Qatar, Dubai and latterly five years in Saudi. In all I reckon I have spent 44 of my 52 years living in Muslim society (3 of those years were spent working at the original AUH airport in passenger services) plus I have a degree in Arabic and I can safely say that I have never ONCE heard any Muslim shouting Allah Akbar in the circumstances described here. But then I do not wish to be unkind to LFC24 maybe he has packed a lot more into his 16 years than I have in 52.

For the record… I challenged since I assumed that LFC24 was suggesting something that – for his 16 years of experience – seemed less than likely. Yet his answers suggested that he was slightly more familiar than I, so I just acknowledged his response.
I was also unsure of him saying that he had done Hajj (or Hadj according to my dictionary) in a different way, since a quick search on Google shows that all pilgrimage to Saudi Arabia is Hajj to Mecca – and the knowledge that, apparently, westerners are not at all welcome was the cause of my wavering emotions – so was left open to interpretation any way you want.

Flood

Well, personally I think the Captain did the right thing. The incident, however innocent it may have been, was frightening anddistressing to a lot of passengers. I am sorry, but if I was on that plane and someone did that, I would be certainly not feel comfortable in a post 9/11 age. Am I being racist.. no, I don’t think so.

I would like to comment on the last exchanges between LFC24 and FLOOD and put my tuppence worth in. I thought FLOODS questions were quite astute. LFC24 gives the impression he knows all about Arabs/muslims and has been on the Haj “in another way” which is quite impressive considering he is 16 years old and still at school and only appears to mention Dubai. I don’t claim to know everything about Muslim society but I grew up in the Muslim North in Nigeria and have worked in Abu Dhabi, Kuwait, Bahrain, Qatar, Dubai and latterly five years in Saudi. In all I reckon I have spent 44 of my 52 years living in Muslim society (3 of those years were spent working at the original AUH airport in passenger services) plus I have a degree in Arabic and I can safely say that I have never ONCE heard any Muslim shouting Allah Akbar in the circumstances described here. But then I do not wish to be unkind to LFC24 maybe he has packed a lot more into his 16 years than I have in 52.

😉 Thank you!

Flood

You have done Hajj?

Yes I have, but in another way, which I won’t explain.

In what way might this be common with Arabs

I won’t say it’s very common, but sometimes it can be. It’s not just on planes, it happens in coaches and mosques too.

and is your flying experience just with Arabs or have you travelled extensively with other ethnic groups

No other ethnic gropus. I have travelled many many times with Arabs, and usually they behave normally. I’d say things like these are a “spur of the moment” which are explainable. One of the reasons they have panic attacks is simply fear of god.

therefore able to offer a detailed, rather than purely perceived, analysis?

Yes, possibly, but I won’t.

I reckon this was nothing more than a panic attack. It is very common with Arabs, I have experienced it many times in Dubai and during pilgrimage in Saudi.

You have done Hajj?
In what way might this be common with Arabs, and is your flying experience just with Arabs or have you travelled extensively with other ethnic groups and are therefore able to offer a detailed, rather than purely perceived, analysis?

Flood

Did anyone ask the guy what was wrong before they threw him off the plane?

And according to the article the man was “shouting” not just quietly whispering as someone who may just be a nervous flyer would. (Which by the way, might worry me more, no matter what their nationality)

I’m not sure searching the plane and delaying the flight two hours was all that warranted; but given the situation as it is and assuming at the time they had other information, and thought they had reason to- it can probably be chocked up to the crew just being extra sure.

Just the Moslem ones then eh, Castor? :rolleyes:

we should be careful that we do not always assume that arab = terrorist.

I fully agree on that!

Then we should discuss the matter of which one of the following is the most likely to blew up a plane:
a) An arab praises Allah and acts nervously.
b) A white person praises God and acts nervously.

Well, let’s look at history then.
1. The christian suicidal mission pretty much ended with the crusades at about 1400 A.D, whereas the muslim holy war (Jihad) is a fact in modern time.
2. UK has been involved in the war against Iraq and Al-Quaida – which has drawn a lot of interest from certain muslim terror groups. UK and UK interest are quite clearly a target for these groups.
3. The latest three suicidal hijackings have been conducted by muslim terror groups (9/11).

So, just because the pilot or security crew considers an arab as more interesting than a white guy it mustn’t necessarily need to be out of racist reasons.

I agree with you but I think we should be careful that we do not always assume that arab = terrorist.

I know that. I was simply making the point that just because the person was getting distressed in Arabic does not mean he is going to blow the aircraft up.

Then we should discuss the matter of which one of the following is the most likely to blew up a plane:
a) An arab praises Allah and acts nervously.
b) A white person praises God and acts nervously.

Well, let’s look at history then.
1. The christian suicidal mission pretty much ended with the crusades at about 1400 A.D, whereas the muslim holy war (Jihad) is a fact in modern time.
2. UK has been involved in the war against Iraq and Al-Quaida – which has drawn a lot of interest from certain muslim terror groups. UK and UK interest are quite clearly a target for these groups.
3. The latest three suicidal hijackings have been conducted by muslim terror groups (9/11).

So, just because the pilot or security crew considers an arab as more interesting than a white guy it mustn’t necessarily need to be out of racist reasons.

ETA are not religious fanatics, they are claiming independence for Basque.

I know that. I was simply making the point that just because the person was getting distressed in Arabic does not mean he is going to blow the aircraft up.

Good point. What if they were saying the same in Spanish or Basque, would they be thrown off for being ETA terrorists?

ETA are not religious fanatics, they are claiming independence for Basque.

And off to GD it goes……. 😀

So if a white person sits there going “Oh my God, oh my God” and rocking back and forth, would you say that was sufficient reason to kick them off too? Because I sat next to a nervous traveller who did just that.

Who is to say this chap wasn’t doing exactly the same?

Christian suicidal bombers and terrorists are quite rare these days. I think you’ll have to take a trip to 1100 A.D in order to see a crusade or two.

Now, if Damien and I agree on something then we must be right! 😀

A disruptive passenger is a disruptive passenger and should be removed from the aircraft, end of story.

I wonder why some people feel that this gentleman’s nationality and religion are of such significance? :rolleyes:

No one does Grey. I was just expecting someone in the press to start landering BA for a “racist move” when infact that is not the case.

So if a white person sits there going “Oh my God, oh my God” and rocking back and forth, would you say that was sufficient reason to kick them off too? Because I sat next to a nervous traveller who did just that.

Who is to say this chap wasn’t doing exactly the same?

If someone was doing that I’d perhaps consider they may have a medical condition that may be best treated off the aircraft?

Then again you could just ignore the passenger and take the risk to carry on?