Bader Spitfire.

Originally posted by John Cooper
I note on Dan’s photo that he has posted, the CO’s pennant is visible,

Minor point of detail.

That is a Wing Commander’s pennant not a CO’s pennant surely?

Moggy
Cyber-Terrapin

Ooh…Daz has got there before me!:D

Eek… I’m always a bit scared of sticking my head up in a Spitfire thread due to all the experts out there and the fact that Spits aren’t really my thing but here it goes. Be gentile with me.

Two points that I’m not sure of.

External differences between the MkI and V were things like the oil cooler under the port wing: semi-circular on the MkI, circular on the MkV; slightly more tapered spinner on the MkV; slightly more pronounced bulged canopy on the MkV.

True if it’s fitted with a Rotol unit but as far as I know Baders Va was fitted with DeHavilland 5/39 prop that used the same spinner as the standard Mk. I aircraft.

Coffman starter bulge (s’bd engine cowling)!

I’ve been looking at a number of pictures of Mk. Vs and can’t see any bulge on them while it’s rather clear on Mk. II aircraft. I also can’t find any mention of it in the Mk. V manual although I may not be looking in the right place.

Please correct me if I’m wrong.

Anne

🙂

AD233…

…doesn’t appear to have one.

Originally posted by Mark V
Coffman starter bulge (s’bd engine cowling)!

On the MkV? I thought this was only on the MkII? Unless, of course, you include MkVs built from MkII airframes?

I note on Dan’s photo that he has posted, the CO’s pennant is visible, but a question I would like to ask about DB is how long did it take to remove himself from his cockpit as I notice one erk already refuelling his Spit, with another couple of bods waiting to support him.

In my diaries of 9 years of the 12 years that I served in the RAF, there is one entry dated 6th March 1964 that Douglas Bader and his wife flew into RAF El Adem, Libya from Benghazi en route to Cairo. I believe he was an aviation manager for Shell, my diary says he flew in on a Beechcraft, it was certainly a single engine light aircraft.

We were told in no uncertain terms from our superiors that we were to be polite and ask if there were any requirements he required. I cannot recall his reply, I do know we chocked his aircraft, he refueled it himself and was off again.

I have a video somewhere taken at Duxford where I think he is talking to Robert Stanford Tuck, anyone recall when this was filmed?

Originally posted by DazDaMan
External differences between the MkI and V were things like the oil cooler under the port wing: semi-circular on the MkI, circular on the MkV; slightly more tapered spinner on the MkV; slightly more pronounced bulged canopy on the MkV.

Coffman starter bulge (s’bd engine cowling)!

I think he distrusted the cannon as they might make his pilots open fire at longer ranges.

Re: Thanks Dan

Originally posted by Andy in Beds

…the picture shows that the fin top is a different colour to the rudder top immediatley adjacent.
I wonder if the blue of the fin flash extended upwards to cover the top of the fin.

Looking at the pic I would suspect a replacement rudder. It does look a different shade – and not even lighting angles would convince me that it is just reflection…
Why should the blue extend? It would show – the blue part of the fin-flash shows here as being very light and yet above it it is very dark…

How many Spitfires did Bader use with his D.B markings; could this one be before the profile, or before a repaint represented by the profile, or has the profile been done based on what a Spitfire at that date should have looked like?
I do recall that Bader didn’t like/trust (forget which) the cannons on the Vb – wasn’t W3185 the last Va on his wing?

Flood.

A quick scan at the potted history of W3185 shows that she was issued to 145 Squadron and 41 Squadron before being issued to 616 Squadron, and passed on to Bader.

As you quite rightly say, presentation aircraft were often inscribed, but I reckon it was probably painted over before passing on to Bader, unless it was painted on the starboard side?

External differences between the MkI and V were things like the oil cooler under the port wing: semi-circular on the MkI, circular on the MkV; slightly more tapered spinner on the MkV; slightly more pronounced bulged canopy on the MkV.

Thanks Dan

Dan
thanks for those pictures.
Does anyone know if the words
‘Lord Lloyd I’ were actually written on the airframe anywhere?
Presentation aircraft were often inscribed.
Also I notice a couple of descrepencies between the profile and the pictures.
The fuselage roundel, especially the centre red dot might be in slightly different proportions and the picture shows that the fin top is a different colour to the rudder top immediatley adjacent.
I wonder if the blue of the fin flash extended upwards to cover the top of the fin.
Any thoughts out there?
Andy

From Spitfire Aces again

Dan

From Price’s “Spitfire at War”

Dan

Profile from Price’s Spit V Aces

Dan

Dan
thanks for that.
Does anyone have any further info on this aircraft.
An illustration would good.
Best
Andy

The Fighter Command Combat Report for the flight in which Bader went down says he was flying a Va and was a Presentation Aircraft marked “Lord Lloyd the First”

According to Spitfire Mark V Aces 1941-45 by Alfred Price, the serial number was W3185 and was “Lord Lloyd I”

Dan