Baffin project underway Dairy Flat NZ

Regarding restoration of Baffin T.8A NZ160 / S1674 we are now on the hunt for parts, bits and pieces for the 580hp Bristol Pegasus II.M3 radial engine that powered the RNZAF Baffins. Don & Steve have some bits for the engine but not all. So anything that could help would be greatly appreciated. Many thanks. Paul.

Fascinating, thanks for the reply.
It’s great to see such unusual types from that time frame to be so well looked into.

I have to ask Dave, how do you know the smallest details about the recovery like that, from eyewitnesses or documented etc?

I am writing a series of books on the various General Reconnaissance and Bomber Reconnaissance Squadrons of the RNZAF (1937-45). One of them is the Wellington (Territorial) Squadron which was the first GR squadron in the RNZAF. When I started this project way back in 2004 I was very lucky to be able to speak with several veterans who joined the squadron in 1938, one even joined in 1937. I also have collected a number of priate memoirs and diaries for this project, and one good one covers the Wellington (T) Sqn too. So there are always eyewitness stories to the bigger evnts that happened.

Of course I have also speant a fair bit of time in the National Archives, and at the Air Force Museum of New Zealand, and other libraries and I’ve trawled through old newspapers both online and for real, and pieced it all together. There are very few squadron records for the early days, they didn’t start properly till about 1940 (or at least if they were kept earlier they’ve been lost). But I feel confident I have as good a record of these early squadrons as anyone is going to get now. I just have to finish off the details and get them published. I used to think no-one even knew what Baffins were apart from me and some old guys, but this restoration will bring it back to the public psyche, like Don and Steve’s lovely Vincent has for that type.

re: NZ153

…

P/O Stanley Gordon White had flown a De Havilland DH 60G Gipsy Moth ZK-ADT ex G-AAJO from the UK to Australia (and shipped to NZ) in 1934

ZK-ADT is now back in with the White family, see
http://rnzaf.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=civil&action=display&thread=17081

Hmm, have you been reading my book? 😉

No have you really written a book??? (or are going to ?)

I have to ask Dave, how do you know the smallest details about the recovery like that, from eyewitnesses or documented etc?

Hmm, have you been reading my book? 😉

re: NZ153

White was rescued by Mr. L. Meo, an Italian fisherman.

The story of the army “recovery”

“”By about 2.30 p.m. the bomber had been brought to within 400 yards of the beach and efforts to turn the machine right way up again so thatshe could be hauled ashore on her wheels proved unsuccessful and resulted in considerable damage to the wings and fuselage. Ropes were attached to various parts of the machine and Air Force men from Rongotai, assisted by officers and men from Fort Dorset, fishermen, and other volunteers,endeavoured to draw her up on the beach. The machine proved difficult to move and the job was hindered by haulage lines breaking. A second attempt to bring her over on to an even keel had almost succeeded when the main haulage line got out of control and she plunged back into the sea. When a second haul was attempted the tail tore away. The wrecked machine was finally brought to the beach about 7 p.m.

The full damage to the bomber and to what extent she will be salvageable will not be known for some time and until all parts have been stripped down and carefully examined. An immersion in salt water is often fatal to an engine.”

P/O Stanley Gordon White had flown a De Havilland DH 60G Gipsy Moth ZK-ADT ex G-AAJO from the UK to Australia (and shipped to NZ) in 1934

The loss of NZ153 at Island Bay is interesting in that Doggie White got the aircraft down gently into Cook Strait, he stepped into a fishing boat that came to his aid and he never even got wet. His aircrfat was floating perfectly and all seemed ok. Then the Army showed up, stuck a rope around it and hauled it in. In doing so they completely f*cked the airframe. When the RNZAF engineers arrived they were not best pleased with the Army!

There were indeed concerns over the fuel system procedures, changing fuel tanks from main to reserve, etc, both before and during the war. Every crash report I’ve read seems to bring this up and the pilots deny they did anything wrong (even if they did 😉 )

Wilfred Arthur Hopkins
Robert Steel Grant

Dave

Interesting thanks for the update .. BTW the loss of NZ153 on 14 December 1939 (P/O Stanley Gordon White OK) at Island Bay, Wellington had a similar issue. Engine stopped then restarted again, but another loss of power and he ditched..

As Baffin not long into service with RNZAF at around that time I wonder if there was a common issue re engine control, instruction type of fuel etc

BTW do you have full names of the pilot of the crew? P/O Wilfred A Hopkins and P/O Robert Grant

S1674 (NZ160)
I do not know the ultimate cause of accident

It was engine failure, a loss of power, then it regained revs, and then lost power again and ultimately quit.

But no info on http://adf-serials.com.au/nz-serials/nz150.shtml

“NZ160 4060/4 Originally built as Ripon Mk.IIC and previously S1674 with Fleet Air Arm coded “5”. Shipped to New Zealand on “Waiwera” in 1938. BOC with No.1 Aircraft Depot, Hobsonville. Broken up at Rongotai in 1941.
“

That statement about being broken up at Rongotai is nonsense. The aircraft lay in the water for two days while they tried to work out a salvage plan. In the end the salvage crew recovered the engine, propeller, instrument panel, two exhausts, undercaiage, the tailskid, the starting handle and two voltage regulator boxes. The rest was saltwater damaged so the salvage team cut the rest into pieces and stacked it all behind local Barney Tosswell’s house. It was decided not to burn the wreckage in the usual way due to the risk from dry grass in the area possibly catching alight and causing further problems. So thankfully the dry grass saved this wreck.

From all the documentation I have looked at I don’t think they ever established what caused the engine to suddenly lose power and quit like that.

As the Baffin is a development of the Ripon, with some new builds and some converted from Ripons, I guess that it would be possible to use the surviving Finnish Ripon as a pattern aircraft for much of the airframe behind the firewall.

S1674 (NZ160) crashied at Little Pigeon Bay, Banks Peninsula, NZ on Wednesday 10th May 1939.

The Backburn Baffin made forced landing at Pigeon Bay, and was written off as a total loss. he Forced landing occurred at around noon and two occupants were P/O W A Hopkins (pilot) and P/O R Grant (Navigator) both from Christchurch NZ. Both officers member of Territorial Air Force and were attending a course of instruction at the flying training school at Wigram Aerodrome. From which they left in the morning on a navigation exercise
to Timaru and back to Wigram via Akaroa.

I do not know the ultimate cause of accident

But no info on http://adf-serials.com.au/nz-serials/nz150.shtml

“NZ160 4060/4 Originally built as Ripon Mk.IIC and previously S1674 with Fleet Air Arm coded “5”. Shipped to New Zealand on “Waiwera” in 1938. BOC with No.1 Aircraft Depot, Hobsonville. Broken up at Rongotai in 1941.
“

Didn’t Mr Smith have a couple of Baffin front fuselages etc stored along with his Mossie in NZ ?.
Those Kiwi’s seem to have a habbit “or should that be Hobbit ?” of bringing back types that went extinct a long time ago. Come on Brits, surely we can do better or at least match what they are doing down there ?.

Bob T.

We’ve not done so badly in recent years. Bulldog, Dolphin, Albacore, now the Barracuda.

Fantastic !! It never ceases to amaze me just what is still out there in terms of parts and remains of extinct types. And although i’m not going to start knocking the Spitfire brigade, but it really is refreshing to the historic aviation movement when others are prepared to ‘step out of the box’ and try and resurrect another long forgotten type 🙂

Rob

Didn’t Mr Smith have a couple of Baffin front fuselages etc stored along with his Mossie in NZ ?.
Those Kiwi’s seem to have a habbit “or should that be Hobbit ?” of bringing back types that went extinct a long time ago. Come on Brits, surely we can do better or at least match what they are doing down there ?.

Bob T.

Wow, now there’s a type that I would love to see complete, best of luck with the restoration!

Good to see another pre war type return.

Dave

A couple of coats of paint and it’ll be apples. 😀