Bankrupt airlines.

727’s don’t have a lock out pin, you had to disconnect the steering control on the nose gear so you can push it back, if you forgot to reconnect, the plane would not have any steering control, plus the mechanic would kick our butts!!

The EMB-145 family doesn’t have a lockout pin but has a trigger on the yoke that disconnects the nose wheel steering. The steering is then engaged by pressing once down on the tiller. These system is powered by the hydraulic pumps on the #1 engine. To avoid an accidental engagement of the nose wheel steering during a pushback we only starte the #2 engine. The #1 engine is then started after the tug disconnects.

Rumor has it that they are going to retrofit the airplane to have a lockout pin. I don’t know what brought that “fix” on.

Originally posted by wannabe pilot
…The best explanation that he can give is that the tug has jack-knifed on push back…

…but what caused the jack knife? Was it the hydraulics pressurising?

Originally posted by wannabe pilot
And the bar is that of an Airbus, can be used on a variety, but most likely to be A320 or A319.

The only Airbus types UA operates is the aforementioned A319/A320, so yeah.

Well I now have some expert advice on what has happened here! My dad’s in from work and I got him to take a look at it, him being a tug driver ‘n all. The best explanation that he can give is that the tug has jack-knifed on push back. The shear pins didn’t snap, as they would be expected to, and so the bar bent round. As the bar bent the tug carried on moving round and crushed against the side of the bar, thus the reason for the borken wheel.

And the bar is that of an Airbus, can be used on a variety, but most likely to be A320 or A319.

I believe the 737-200 has no lockout so in their standard form they are unable to start engines in the push so that they don’t pressurise whatever hydraulic system powers the nosewheel steering. You’re safe on a 757/767 so long as that pin is in.

Back when I was working as a ramper, the line mechanics always told us be careful when connecting the towbar when someone was in the cockpit, if they barely touched the nose steer control, it would snap the towbar & break a leg.

Originally posted by Wrenchbender
The tow bar is hollow aluminum tube. Because you have to lift it up to attach it to the gear. If It was out to steel you could not do so. I had a captain that put on the brakes during push back and he about tore out the nose gear.

Did the plane take a nose dive on you guys? What did the Captain say when you told him over the headset that basically the plane had no working nosegear?

I posted this picture on our company pilot forum and a 737 pilot said the same thing. No lockout pin on the push with the nose turned by the tug would be a perfect set up to lead to the bent towbar. Hopefully no one was hurt.

I’d be suprised if it was only alumnium. A few years ago there was a EMB-145 that basically had the nose gear torn off by the tug on the push. The ground crew started the push before the brakes were released. The nose gear gave before that tow bar did. There were pictures floating around the internet a few years ago of the jet with it’s nose resting on the ground but I can’t seem to find them.

Here’s the NTSB report for that incident. oops.

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief2.asp?ev_id=20010601X01054&ntsbno=NYC01LA125&akey=1

The tow bar is hollow aluminum tube. Because you have to lift it up to attach it to the gear. If It was out to steel you could not do so. I had a captain that put on the brakes during push back and he about tore out the nose gear.

I’m with bigredMD11, I reckon the lockout pin wasn’t in place and when they started the engines in the push the engine driven pumps came online and pressurised the nosewheel steering while the pushback was in the turn.

Originally posted by andrewm
Maybe the aircraft still had parking brakes on when they tried to push?

That would require the tugs engine and towbar anchor to be powerful enough to bend hardened steel. Probably not. Me thinks there is something else behind the picture.

Going back to the original question:

1. The US has different laws to most other places. There is certainly no UK equivalent to chapter 9, 11 etc. Once a company is insolvent it must either take steps to secure the position (eg. getting creditors to agree to be nice) or it will be liquidated. This can be voluntary (members’ voluntary liquidation) or compulsory, if a creditor asks a Court to so order it. In that case, the Court will appoint a receiver, who essentially does the same job as the Liquidator would if the whole thing was voluntary.

2. The Liquidator has to pay off the creditors:

No. 1 – the tax man
No. 2 – anyone else, depending how they rank

3. Individual investors and customers generally get NO protection or pay outs at all. In the case of airlines, there is indeed a limited protection through ATOL or IATA or even the CAA – but that’s just airline industry regulations, not an instrument of legislation.

Maybe the aircraft still had parking brakes on when they tried to push?

Was that an A319/A320 or a 757/767 towbar?

Not all mechanics are idiots

I think I know what happened. The idiot mechanic or idiot ramp tramp did not make sure the pin was in the nose gear, when it came time for push back, when the paymover tried to turn the nose wheel of the a/c it did not turn, due to the roughly 3000psi in the hydraulic system of the nose gear bent the hell out of that tow bar!

p.s. no offense wrenchbender on the ‘idiot mechanic’

Originally posted by Wrenchbender
What is this?

A one-way ticket to the employment agency?

Adding on to what I said above, I don’t think I made it too clear. The pins that snap are the ones connecting the tow-bar to the nose wheel of the plane. These pins are very small aswell, not surprising that they snap so easily. I’m trying to find one I have in my bedroom somewhere, to put a pic on here. I’ll post it later if I find it.

As to what the ramp people have done to that tow-bar :confused: Driven the tug into a wall with the tow-bar on the front?!

Andrew, the smaller the bar the bigger the aircraft in general. With say a 747, the tug can get right under the nose of the plane, and so only a very short bar is needed. Planes such as the Fokker 100 have the longest tow bars, as the the tug has to be quite a distance from the nose wheel, as it cant fit under the plane!

Jeanske, that would not have been caused by pushing the aircraft extremely hard (or I very much doubt so). The tow-bar is connected to the tug via shear pins (they slide into that small ring at the front of the bar) and in the case of the tug going faster than it should be, these pins will snap. The pins can also snap if you brake too hard in the tug, as the plane will want to carry on forward whereas the tug wont! This is why it is not a very easy job, and you also have to be very careful, because if these pins snap there is a chance of the plane hitting the tug, or visa versa. On occasions they have been known to make the nose wheel collapse, and on a big aircraft that would crush the tug at the same time.