Bases in Europe!!

RE: Bases in Europe!!

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 18-10-02 AT 10:03 PM (GMT)]Arthur, the WEU has been integrated withing the EU. The EU WILL establish a military force, and if we don’t, we can better stop with the whole project of uniting Europe cause without a military backup, Europe will be nothing more than a whining continent.

And if the EU is not supranational, explain me which other organisation in the world has the power to block British beef from being exported inside and outside the EU }>. Face it, We are ALL living in disneyland!!! 😀
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RE: Bases in Europe!!

u have all been very helpful many thanx

RE: Bases in Europe!!

There are a few defence pacts falling under the EU and not under NATO. The WEU is one, the Dutch-German corps is one, the French-German corps is another one. However, these are still all bilateral treaties, and (apart from the paper-WEU) have no direct linkage to the EU political structure.

RE: Bases in Europe!!

yeh Ben does like the EU a lot

to make it clear the EU has nothing to do with defnce – no matter how much Ben’s tree hugging socalsit friends would like it to be.

defence in europe falls into two camps –

a) NATO (including france)
b) neutral

the EU is really out of this arean

if you wnated to base planes or something aboriad (dunno why) you’ld be going through nato – not the EU

sorry Ben }> 😀 }>

rabie :9

RE: Bases in Europe!!

Hi Benjamin – I thought you lived in Belgium, not Disneyland! This “Supranational” Government of yours is a bit of EU wishful thinking. The EU parliament has some powers, but they do not have the power to base the military forces of one member state within the borders of another. All current basing of non-national military forces within the borders of member states is authorised by NATO status of forces agreements, not by the EU Parliament. There is no EU Army, Navy or Air Force, and whilever the various member states remain sovereign with their own foreign policy it will remain that way.

I don’t want to get into a political debate, it’s not my thing, but having been a serving member of a NATO military force for nearly 40 years, and having served in Germany, with close contacts with French, Belgian, Danish, Norwegen and Dutch Forces, I do know from first hand why I was where I was, and who authorised me to be there!

KeithMac.

RE: Bases in Europe!!

AdOnis,

The following is derived from online sources and should be helpful to you on the Cyprus question. I was based in ESBA back in 1987 and also did some detachments at the retained sites at Mount Olympus and Troodos.

“The British Sovereign Base Areas of Akrotiri and Dhekelia comprise those parts of Cyprus which stayed under British jurisdiction and remained British sovereign territory when the 1960 Treaty of Establishment created the independent Republic of Cyprus.

They cover 98 square miles, 47.5 around Akrotiri , the Western Sovereign Base Area (WSBA) and 50.5 around Dhekelia, the Eastern Sovereign Base Area (ESBA). Because they are run as military bases, the Sovereign Base Area Administration (SBAA) reports to the British Ministry of Defence in London rather than the Foreign and Commonwealth Office.

From House of Commons questions:

“Mr. John D. Taylor: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence how many retained sites in Cyprus were controlled by the United Kingdom under the London and Zurich agreements of 1960; how many of these retained sites have since been handed over to the control of the Cyprus Government; and at how many, and which, locations retained sites have been handed over to the Cyprus Government since the division of the island in 1974.

Mr. Soames: The treaty of establishment 1960 provided for 40 British retained sites in the Republic of Cyprus. They are listed in four schedules which form a part of that treaty, a copy of which is in the Library of the House. Since then 25 complete sites and parts of six sites have been returned. Of these, eight complete sites and parts of one site have been handed back since 1974. These were as follows:

a. at the port of Limassol;
b. north-west of Zyyi (parts of);
c. at Cape Greco;
d. the water supply for the Cape Greco retained site;
e. at Polemidhia;
f. the water supply for the Polemidhia retained site;
g. north of Zyyi;
h. the water supply for the retained site north of Zyyi; i. near Paphos, about mile from the top of Cape Paphos.

Mr. John D. Taylor: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence how many retained sites, and at which locations, remain in (a) southern Cyprus governed by the Cyprus Government and (b) northern Cyprus governed by the government of the Turkish republic of northern Cyprus.

Mr. Soames: A total of 15 British-retained sites remain in Cyprus, of which 11 are in the south of the island and four in the north. The sites are:
a. (South)
at Troodos (two sites);
at Mount Olympus;
at Nicosia airfield;
water supply for retained site at Nicosia airfield on the coast, about five miles south of Larnaca;
on the outskirts of Limassol;
water supply for the retained site on the outskirts of Limassol; at Kissousa, including the water source and pipeline
to the Akrotiri sovereign base area;
at Limassol, in Paphos road.
b. (North)
at the port in Famagusta;
in Famagusta (three sites).”

TJ

RE: Bases in Europe!!

Nope, that’s not true, since the 1993 Maastricht treaty the territories of each individual member of the EU is considered to be common EU-territory, which means that if for example Turkey would attack Greece, the EU is obliged to respond, even if that means with military force. The EU is far more important than NATO is anyway, especially since the end of the cold war.

The EU is not a military organisation, nor is it an economical. It’s more like a supranational government.

Some more

Belgium:
SHAPE in Mons – Casteau. (A C-23 and a Gulfstream 4 or 5 based there)
Maybe US bombs in Kleine Brogel, which lead to a major controversy here as it conflicts with non nuclear proliferation treaty…

Some belgian troops are still in Germany, but are due to go back to Belgium very soon!

Florennes A.B.: hosts the TLP

France: Cazaux hosts a RSAF A-4 sqn

About NATO AWACS: I suppose they form part of the “Luxemburg AF” due to the taxation level 🙂
BTW, their navy is the most powerful in Europe 😛

RE: Bases in Europe!!

Being a member of the EU which is an economic alliance gives no rights or priveleges on Military basing. All basing of military units in another country is by standing NATO agreement. The British Base in Cyprus is different again. Akrotiri is a Soverign Base Area, which like an Embassy is British Territory and is not subject to either NATO or EU agreements. Confusing is’nt it! The UK also has a base at Gibralter which is also British Territory, although the Spanish would like it to be theirs.

KeithMac

RE: Bases in Europe!!

i asked Eu to Eu country not US forces

Apologies for over-answering. I forgot an EU one: the HQ of the Dutch-German Corps in Münster is for a combined Dutch-German unit. Not too much of an expert on the bellycrawler stuff though.

RE: Bases in Europe!!

i asked Eu to Eu country not US forces

many thanx

RE: Bases in Europe!!

Here in the Netherlands we have:
– German Luftwaffe barracks at Budel
– NATO HQ at Brunssum (multinational)
– US barracks at Schinnen

Belgium:
– NATO HQ Brussels, undoubtedly more.

France:
– USAF U-2R detachment at Istres, probably more

Italy:
– US bases Aviano (USAF), Piacenza (USAr), Naples, Sigonella (both USN).

Greece:
– US RC-135 detachment at Souda, Crete and fleet facilities at Souda Bay.

Iceland:
– Rotations of USAF F-15 detachments USN P-3C deployments and a HH-60 unit and some USN support stuff.

Portugal:
– USAF presence at Lajes.

Spain:
– USN VQ-2 and support facilities at Rota.

Turkey:
– US and RAF deployments to Incirlik (and Diyarbakir?).

Germany of course has a lot: there are still British, Canadian, French (non-NATO), Dutch, Belgian and US troops stationed there. Of particular interest in this is the NAEWF component at Geilenkirchen which is officially Luxembourg AF, but consists of personell of all NATO countries except the UK and the US (a few E-3A crews actually have both Turkish and Greek crewmembers). This NAEWF has again multinational permanently manned detachments at Prevesa (Greece) and Orland (Norway).

RE: Bases in Europe!!

The Netherlands have an army base in Seedorf Germany, Hope this will help

regards,
jw