BATTLE OF BRITAIN FILM ID,s

Dezz,
(Hark it is Mark!)
I do have Robert Rudhall’s books and indeed was a contributor. Robert’s list is in the ‘list of lists’ category and Robert won’t mind me saying that. The fact is, at the time of the film it was very very difficult to distinguish the individual aircraft and certain pairs, the XIXs, the flying IXs, the T.IXs and the Mark Addies were extremly difficult to seperate will full access, let alone from the boundaries. It was only post the film and in subsequent years, as the data base of photographs has built up, that the individual ‘distressing’, paint chips etc combined with the mechanical features has simplified identification.

What I am looking for is more photographs of the Spitfires in film markings to confirm some of those codes in Robert’s list. I suspect that of the 25 or so unconfirmed codes, 50% are legitimate and the the other 50% are mis-idents.

And here for Daz is a bit of ‘missing Squadron’ film outake of TB382 with an EQ code.

Mark

There were a couple of shots in “Battle of Britain Film – the Photo Album” (The second of Robert Rudhall’s books) showing Spits with LC codes.

I wonder how many hours worth of air footage is stored in the MGM vaults – would make one helluva video just for that ALONE!! 😀

Hark12
The codes are taken from Robert’s book, and include, i think, codes from the “missing squadron” never featured in the final cut of the film, I typed them out my self so as to assist me in identifying the aircraft in, not just bobf, but all the other films and documentaries that feature outtakes from the film, however it is not beyond doubt, that I may have copied some down wrong, due to myself consuming more and more beer as the evening went on, 😀 😀 and after a while everything beginning with N33 looking the same, 🙁 let me know what ones look duff and I will check them with the book.

Dezz
🙂 🙂

BoB Spitfires

To DEZZ (particularly) but everyone who answered the thread

Many thanks, 😀

No all I,ve got to do is sort it out,

Was there an article in “Flypast” and does anyone have the issue date.

EN830,

If there were footage in of BM597 it would have to be studio shot material for some special effect. It was never seen at any of the exterior shoots. Sorry but very very doubtful. 🙁

Indeed the ‘out take’ material is commercially available and was the source for the Dark Blue World footage that was enhanced for the air to air sequences.

Mark

Ant,

Both the colour photograph you have seen and the b/w of TE384 on its nose were by my good friend the late Ron Cranham. TE384 is currently in California in store – awaiting its turn.

Propellers were a problem then and this was pre Hoffman replacement. Many were damaged and smashed during the filming creating quite a premium. Sheds were scoured!

Of the taxiing machines SM411 and TB382, both high back, were the principal film stars used for close ups and shut downs and in consequence were fitted with a DH and a broad root Dowty Rotol three blade propeller assembly respectively.

As Daz mentioned the dummy rear decking was strictly for ground work and was an aluminium shell that was pop rivetted on to the low back. With a smidge of filler and a full matt paint finish you literally could not see the join.

Here is a pic I took at the Henlow Press Day 18 April 1968 showing TE 311 prior to painting. Bountiful supply – maybe. 🙂

Mark

Originally posted by Mark12
EN830.
There is no photographic evidence to my knowledge of BM597 being used in the film. It went to RAF Henlow to produce the master moulds for the replicas and that was that.

Mark

Thanks Mark, I had read somewhere that BM597 was also used as set dressing, can’t remember where I read this though.

I wonder if in the deep dark vaults of MGM there are reels of un-used shots, and out-takes, who would one contact ?????

Ant – the answer lies in Rudhall’s book (again), but unfortunately someone from work has borrowed mine!!! 🙁

If memory serves me correct (usually it does, except on blonde days), the rear fuselages were built up of ply and skinned over with aluminium. I **THINK** that’s correct, anyway! There are certainly photos of the “Mark Addie” Spits being converted in the books – maybe Mark12 or someone else will have a bountiful supply of them.

None of the Mark Addies flew in the movie. You’ll notice some are fitted with three-blade and others with four-blade props. I’m assuming the four-bladers are the taxiing ones, and the three-bladers just static?

Thanks for clearing that up-that last pic of AI-L is definately the one I was talking about,although the pic I saw was a colour and taken from the stbd side.Didn’t realise they’d pranged more than one Spit like that-wonder what the props cost to replace in those days??
Anyone know what’s happenning with TE384 these days?Last I heard she was grounded/stored with an owner in the US.
I’m intrigued as to how the low-backed versions were made into high-backs.I presume they built some sort of fairing to raise the profile of the fuselage spine,but I very much doubt that this could’ve been deemed an airworthy mod-were any of the low-backs flown as high backs??

Dezz,

May I ask if this serial code list is your personal research?
I see that you have 25 codes which do not match my master list, which is compiled strictly from confirmed images. Some I am sure fill gaps but some also look suspicious
There were some spurious idents that got into print at the time and then there were list ‘summarisers’ who compiled the ‘list of the list’ and published – God bless them!

Mark

Daz

When TE384 went up on its nose the codes were AI-L on the stb and AI-Q on the port.
The support structure is to stop it falling and buckling its back until the crane gets there.

Mark

hey Mark 12
i never did thank you for the pic of miss York with my name on the bottom, in the quote thread…….cheers mate 😀 😀 😀

dezz:)

Evidently a good crop of Spitfires that year. Can you imagine the uproar it would produce if it happened now.

EN830.
There is no photographic evidence to my knowledge of BM597 being used in the film. It went to RAF Henlow to produce the master moulds for the replicas and that was that.

Mark

Let me start with the pranged Spitfires. There were several. TE384 did go on its nose but the Spitfire that Robert Shaw pranged was SM411. It was AI-A, but then just about every Spitfire was AI-A at one time! Here is a shot, ‘sort of extracted’ from a bit of movie. It shows SM411 on its nose with Shaw in the white poloneck and to the rear is TE384 AI-L, from the previous day, still also on its nose. North Weald May 1968.

i hope this all comes out ok, i have copy-and-paste’d it from a word docu

SPITFIRES

Identity Codes Serials

AR213 AI-B, AI-C, AI-G, AI-N N3311, N3312, N3314,
CD-B, CD-C, EI-E N3316, N3322

P7350 AI-A, AI-E, BO-H, CD-C N3310, N3312, N3316,
CD-G, CD-H, CD-M, DO-M N3317, N3312
EI-C

AB910 AI-C, AI-D, AI-F, AI-J, AI-H, N3312, N3313, N3315,
AI-M, AI-N, CD-D, CD-F, N3318, N3319, N3321,
CD-K, DO-M, N3322

BL641 AI.B AI-D, AI-O, CD-Q, N3313, N3315, N3318,
DO-M, EQ-D N3323, N3327

BM597 NIL (Replica mould master) Nil

EP120 AI-B, AI-N N3312

AR501 AI-B, AI-C, AI-E, AI-G, AI-J, N3311, N3312, N3314,
CD-J, CD-K, DO-A, DO-G, N3316, N3317, N3318, DO-H, EI-Q N3319, N3320, N3324,

MH415 AI-A, AI-C, AI-D, AI-E, AI-H, N2210, N3310, N3311,
AI-M, AI-N, AI-S, CD-A, CD-B, N3312, N3314, N3315,
CD-F, CD-H, DO-H, DO-K, N3317, N3319, N3320,
DO-M, EI-G N3321, N3322, N3328

MH434 AI-A, AI-D, AI-E, AI-G, AI-H, N3310, N3312, N3313
AI-K, BO-G, CD-F, CD-H,CD-M, N3314, N3315, N3316,
DO-N, EI-H N3317, N3319, N3321

MK297 AI-A, AI-B, AI-H, CD-A, CD-B, N3310, N3311, N3314,
CD-E, DO-A, DO-B, DO-H, DO-N N3317
EI-A

MK356 AI-R N3328

MJ772 AI-D, CD-H, CD-N, DO-H Nil

TE308 AI-E, CD-A, CD-D, CD-F, CD-J Nil
CD-K, CD-O, DO-H, DO-K, DO-L
DO-S, EI-A, EI-J Nil

RM689 AI-A, AI-J, AI-M, AI-N, BO-B, CD-C, N3310, N3311, N3313,
CD-J, DO-B, DO-D N3318, N3321

RW382 AI-G AI-H, DO-L, DO-M, EI-G, EQ-G N3314, N3316, N3317,
N3320

SL574 AI-A, AI-E, EI-A N3310

SM411 AI-A, AI-B, AI-S, DO-R, EI-M, LC-M N3310, N3311, N3323,
N3329

TB382 AI-A, AI-C, AI-H, AI-P, BO-H, CD-A, N3310, N3316, N3317,
DO-A, DO-L, DO-M, EI-A, LC-A N3320, N3321, N3323,
N3324, N3370

TE311 AI-C, AI-M, DO-H N3321, N3324

TE356 AI-C, AI-P, DO-M, EI-C, LC-C N3312, N3324

TE384 AI-E, AI-H, AI-L, AI-P, AI-Q, DO-L, N3314, N3315, N3316,
LC-F N3320, N3323, N3324

TE476 AI-B, AI-F N3311, N3320

PM631 AI-E, AI-H, AI-L, CD-F, CD-K, DO-G N3314, N3315, N3316,
DO-N N3317, N3319, N3320

PM651 AI-S, BO-S, DO-N N3317, N3320, N3329

PS853 AI-E, AI-G, AI-M, CD-C, EI-K N3314, N3316, N3319,
N3321
PS915 AI-R N3328

LA198 AI-G, DO-C N3316, N3317

HURRICANES

P2617 MI-C, MI-S H3426, H3427

Z7015 F, L, MI-A, MI-D H3418

LF363 F, MI-A, MI-D, MI-H, KV-C H3420, H3421, H3422

LF715 Nil (Replica mould master) Nil

PZ865 H, MI-CMI-D, MI-G, KV-A, KV-M, H3421, H3423, H3424
OK-I

RCAF 5377/G- D, F, MI-A, MI-D, MI-F, KV-B H3418, H3421, H3423

ohhh it dont look to bad does it????

Dezz

🙂

dont forget…if you see a copy of Mr Rudhall’s book sell your children to get hold of it 😀 😀 😀

Robert Rudhall’s book is VERY comprehensive in identifying each Spit and Hurricane that took part!

I can only remember three of the ‘active’ Hurricanes – LF363, PZ865 and Z7015 (taxiing). The Canadian one used in the movie escapes me!!

MH434 is recognisable by the radio antenna protruding from the underneath of its fuselage you know.

Been waiting since january to slip that in.

(Second time i’ve said THAT today!)

Possibly – wouldn’t be the first time someone’s done that for a movie, so they get more flying/ground footage without the hassle.

“Which was the one Robert Shaw pranged??I’ve seen pics of it resting on it’s nose with a smashed prop,AI-A were the codes if I remember right…”

Ant – this was TE384, if the grey cells do their job right. But, AI-A was not the code worn when it went over!! In Robert Rudhall’s book, you can clearly see the Spit up-ended in the background of one of North Weald’s “scramble” shots, but I think the code letter is Q, not A, on the port side.

Strangely, in an old Flypast mag, another (colour this time) photo of TE384 appears, on her nose, with some sort of bracing around the tail, taken from the starboard side, with the letters AI-L!!!

Unless they reapplied the other codes following the shot of Shaw taxiing away…? Wouldn’t make much sense to me….