'Battle of Britain' Luftwaffe badges

Right then – I’ve created a Yahoo group on which can be posted photos etc. I don’t think you need a Yahoo membership, but if someone wants to try, and it comes up with some sort of failed message, please let me know.

Below are the various e-mail addresses needed for the group.

Post message: [email]battleofbritainmovie@yahoogroups.com[/email]
Subscribe: [email]battleofbritainmovie-subscribe@yahoogroups.com[/email]
Unsubscribe: [email]battleofbritainmovie-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com[/email]
List owner: [email]battleofbritainmovie-owner@yahoogroups.com[/email]

Please note, you don’t need to send images to me in order to put them up – they just need to be a certain size.

So, who wants to get the ball rolling?? 😀

This seems as good a place to start…

Taken from “Warbirds Worldwide” , Vol2, No3, circa Sept 88

Flyable Hispano Ha-112-M1L

serial / UK reg / film codes / location & status

C4K-31 – G-AWHE – Red 8 – Confederate AF, Harlington as N109ME

C4K-61 – G-AWHF – no markings – location/status unknown

C4K-75 – G-AWHG – Yellow 11 – sold to US 25/10/74, location/status unknown

C4K-99 – G-AWHM – Yellow 5 – Wilson Edwards, TX as N90604

C4K-100 – G-AWHJ – Red 13 – Kalamazoo Air Zoo, MIC as N76GE

C4K-102 – G-AWHK – Red 7 – Harold Kindsvater, TX as N9938

C4K-105 – G-AWHH – Red 4 – Wilson Edwards, TX as N6036

C4K-106 – G-AWHI – Yellow 8 – Wilson Edwards, TX as N90607

C4K-112 two seater – G-AWHC – Red 11 – Wilson Edwards, TX as N1109G

C4K-122 – G-AWHL – Yellow 7 & MI+T as Hurricane – Champlin Fighter Museum, as N109J

C4K-126 – G-AWHD – Red 9 – Wilson Edwards, TX as N90603

C4K-127 – G-AWHO – MI-S as Hurricane – EAA Msueum, Oshkosh as N109BF

C4K-130 – G-AWHN – Black Chevron marks – Wilson Edwards, TX as N90602

C4K-144 – G-AWHP – Red 3 – CAF, Harlington, destroyed in fatal crash 19/12/87, was N8575

C4K-152 – G-AWHR – White 5 – Wilson Edwards, TX as N4109G

C4K-169 – G-AWHT – Red 5 – CAF, Lancaster Airport TX, as N9939

C4K-170 – G-AWHS – Yellow Chevron marks – Auto & Tecknic Museum, Germany

Taxying Buchons

serial / film codes / location & status

C4K-107 – unknown – now G-BOML

C4K-121 – unknown – Don Knapp, Fort Lauderdale, USA

C4K-131 – unknown – location unknown

C4K-134 – unknown – West German Air Force, JG71, Wittmundhafen

C4K-135 – unknown – converted with DB to Bf109G as D-FMBB

C4K-172 – unknown – Charles Church, UK as G-HUNN

Static Buchons
all four static Buchons came to the UK during filming and were used for spares and cockpit shots etc.

serial / notes / location & status

C4K-30 – Henlow for spares – location unknown

C4K-111 – Pinewood Studio for cockpit shots – location unknown

C4K-114 – Henlow for spares – national Aviation Museum, Ottawa, Canada

C4K-154 – Henlow for spares – location unknown

CASA 2111’s used as Heinkels in the UK

serial / UK reg / film codes / location & status

B2-137 – G-AWHB – 6J+PR, U6+DL, VI+BN & A5+ER – Kermit Weeks

B2-166 – G-AWHA – 6J+BR, 6J+PR, VI+CL & A5+BN – Deutsches Museum, Germany

Whilst I have the Spitfires 99.5% licked in terms of identifying any film shot, the Buchons are a different story. They all look the same or they do to me anyway. Dave McDonald in New Zealand clearly knows quite a lot about the Buchon IDs and has just gone into print in ClassicW. I am awaiting a copy of the output.

Mark

Without looking, I’m pretty sure that Robert Rudhall’s first book on the movie has something of a table of aircraft involved, including their codes and serials (Spits and Hurris). There is a list of Buchons involved, and the Heinkels, too, although the only known codes used are those for the two that were bought from the Spanish AF. It should be just a case of typing all that info down and pasting it up.

I reckon, for the time being at least, a freebie website would suffice until we get some kind of response, what do you think? In fact, thinking about it, Yahoo can host a forum on the subject, such as the SpitBits one that I’m on. Only thing is, you have to have a Yahoo account in order to be able to contribute. That wouldn’t be too hard to do. You can also add files and photos to the forum, too.

The PPrune forum produced a few photos, although I think the vast majority of photos I’ve seen have come from here (Septic and Mark12, for instance.)

I’m sure there used to be a sort of Battle of Britain Film Society-type thingy before, but it ran down after a while. Was never a member personally, but I read of it in one of the historic magazines.

Guys,

I seem to have started something here! All it needs is someone to ask the right question, and look what you get.

I think I’ve mentioned this before, but can you people do a list of what a/c carries what markings, ie spinner colour, badge carried, and fuselage codes, and tie as many as pos to their UK reg?

(It might be an idea to find some way of referring to the various ‘staffel’ & ‘geschwader’ badges, could one of you allocate a letter/name to each one, and post a pic of each with the letter, so we can work from the same standard?)

A typical entry for a ‘109’ could run – G-ABCD , yellow 8+ -, badge A, also carried yellow4+I, badge C.

Is it possible to establish the ‘proper’ ID (UK reg) of the aircraft in the photos you’ve posted & others you haven’t? It would be nice to be able to say ‘Ah yes, yellow8, badge B, must be G-ADEF!.’

A website is a great idea, or what about a forum type site where people could discuss the film, post info & pix, and gradually build up a database?. It would be great to see all the various pix of the a/c involved that have cropped up on this forum etc.(Proctukas etc) all in one place.

I wonder if other forums might produce further photos or info? If any of you belong to other forums, could you try a post like the one that started this off, and see what comes of it? Some years ago at an aviation enthusast fair (at Feltham I think), I seem to recall seeing a typed newsletter/list which memory tells me was produced by one or more people either fans of the film, or trying to do what we’re doing here? I don’t know it it was a one-off or a regular newsletter.

I could really do with a copy of Robert Rudhall’s book. Are there any useful tables like the one/s I’ve suggested above?

Plenty there for you to chew over, and its getting late, so a spot of supper for me & off to bed.

Geoff.

I think it’s high time there was a website for something like this – I can do a freebie one like my replicas site.

Here’s a closer shot of the most ubiquitous badge used in the film.

II.JG 77 badge. As mentioned previous post.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mark12
[B]I checked through all the ‘stills’ and personal shots of the Buchons, both in the UK and Spain, and can find just the three unit badges we have illustrated.

Here’s the 4th unit badge as photographed at Duxford 1968, the Connie Edwards pic shows an adapted II/JG 77 badge.

And again – in 1/72nd scale.

Yellow-nose with Spitfire VB AI-A

Yes, that’s yet another Messerschmitt 109 (1/24) with a Spitfire (1/72) behind! 😀

Obligatory Spitfire vs Buchon shot!

Yellow-nosed Buchon, 1/72nd scale – sorry the image is a bit on the small side 🙁

Model photos

Hope these come out!

Here’s my red-nosed Buchon – 1/48th scale

A website could be put together without much fuss…

Not only that, but we could add lists of the surviving aircraft, images, code details, things like that.

What can I say but many many thanks. Are there any more photos, or info on what carried what?

This info really needs to be put together in a book or article. Being as I’m editor of the Shoreham Aircraft Museum newsletter, I’d love to print an article, if someone wants to put something together? How about it septic, DDM or Mark12???? If anyone’s willing I can give more guidance re the newsletters article format etc.

Geoff.

…..and a close up of the badge.

Mark

Here is a shot of one of the bombers.

I checked through all the ‘stills’ and personal shots of the Buchons, both in the UK and Spain, and can find just the three unit badges we have illustrated. I did however locate this shot of ‘Connie’ Edwards taken in Texas post the film. This may be a fourth badge but it is possible that it is a personal badge of Connie’s. It has a vague simailarity to the ‘Spook’ airforce badge he put on the Guatamalan Mustangs.

Mark

sod it

I slapped on the DVD and had a look – no WAY would I have remembered to have a look by tomorrow night!! 😀

The Heinkel unit numbers (that I saw) were II./KG 545, and II./KG 637.

The only Messerschmitt unit ID I could see belonged to the yellow-nosed outfit led by “Major Foehn” – II./JG 418

That doesn’t mean there isn’t another visible marking/ID somewhere!

Good-o, Septic! I often wondered whether they had badges on them! Got any more?? 😀

Here’s a close up of the Insignia. Sorry about the poor quality.