Bemused

Alex .. good name, Frecce Tricolori of course.

Off to the whiskey cupboard now
Cheers
Alex

ehehehehe if only u knew where our name comes from 😀 😀 😀

Alex

Yee ha!! That would be one hell of an interesting marriage! Bring it on and please can we watch the fall out?! 😀

I think the important question is How can we avoid the fallout? I, for one, have no wish to be anywhere close by when it happens 😀

But equally of those like Melv and his bestest luther hands for what for me is beautiful if I can say that without being a weird pyscho-sycophant.

Alex

But can you say that? I’d struggle!

Just been reading this thread, new to the forum, I was just wondering are Flying Chick and R.Weaver married because they certainaly act like it!

Yee ha!! That would be one hell of an interesting marriage! Bring it on and please can we watch the fall out?! 😀

I know I didn’t get my ATPL in a cornflakes packet!!!!!

That sure would have been a lot easier.

You mean you didn’t go to the Kelloggs school of aviation??

Actually the school at the W.K. Kellogg Airport is called Western Michigan University.

http://www.wmich.edu/aviation/

Until 9/11 they did the initial training for British Airways newhires there.

http://www.airnav.com/airport/KBTL

I’ve been to KBTL so I can say honestly say that I’ve been to the Kelloggs school of aviation but unfortunately they didn’t issue free ATPL’s.

As a forum voyeur (don’t really have much to say) who hasn’t been here for a while, I’ve just sat down with a litre of Bud (a present not my choice) and had the most entertaining half hour for the whole of bleak January reading this thread .. so thank you and god bless you all!

A few points:

Did spinning in my PPL as optional.. Enjoyed it sort of.
Alex .. good name, Frecce Tricolori of course.
Only know one ATPL (BA) personally, and I’m envious of the smarmy bugger as I fly my corporate desk… so Martin @ 18 enough said.
But equally of those like Melv and his bestest luther hands for what for me is beautiful if I can say that without being a weird pyscho-sycophant.

However R.Weaver.. prove the infidels wrong and post a picture old boy to disprove this David Mccallum theory. (He was the invisible man on TV if you’re too young mate.. same era as Gareth Hunts Nescafe ads)

Off to the whiskey cupboard now
Cheers
Alex

u r new and already want to put yrself into trouble pal??? 😀
Welcome onboard!! 🙂

Alex

Just been reading this thread, new to the forum, I was just wondering are Flying Chick and R.Weaver married because they certainaly act like it!

🙂 Out of the mouths of babes and new readers….. 😉

Moggy

Just been reading this thread, new to the forum, I was just wondering are Flying Chick and R.Weaver married because they certainaly act like it!

Hi Skycruiser,

First since I was the bloke who brought up the whole spin training that has lead to these post, I want to restate my position that FOR ME spin training and Aerobatic training made me a better pilot. I come from a Military family both my Dad and Uncle are Retired US Naval Aviators so I was taught by both of them to fly they also trained along my sister and three Cousins we all went thru the basic PPL coarse here in the States but it was my Dad who insist that if I’m going to Fly my Moth that I was going to be taught how to FLY IT that meant I was put into are Stearman and my Uncle’s Decath. and taught both Spin Training and Aerobatics using the US Navy Training course. I will state this right out in the open I was deathly afraid to even to try a spin but with the proper coaching and understanding from my instructor(yes they where family) I improved my flying and gane expeirance and confidance in the air that I didn’t have.

I think that anyone who is going thru PPL training should be given some sort of Spin training this is my belief. Today I love flying Aerobatics and also Close formation to me is one of the joys of flight I enjoy, its not everyones cup of Tea either is flying Airliners I have the ulmost respect for you guys and me calling you or any of you Bus Drivers is meant in Fun and I’m not trying to insult you or your Proffession. Like wise I’ve been called a raving idiot because I like to spin an aircraft or worse yet push an aircraft to its out limits. To me its my style of flying. Hey we all enjoy this thing called flying and how one choose to enjoy it is up to each person you enjoy being a Airline pilot while I enjoy be a Warbird Pilot/Aerobatic pilot.I never want to be a Airline pilot want to fly Warbirds all my life and I’m lucky that I’ve had the chance to do something I enjoy.

Sorry for the length of the post folks but I just want to get this out their.

Now I notice Young Mr. Weaver put up a responce so Mr. Weaver why haven’t you answer the questions that have been posed to you?

Happy flying to all and may you have a safe and happy flight

Cheers
RER

Firstly, Cheers Martin, I guess some people here get a little hot under the collar very quickly.

Also, well done on getting your first job in aviation, it’s extremely hard to get the lucky break we all need to start our careers in aviation.

I would also like to point out that Martin has achieved is goals because he thinks with a level head and takes on board advice from others. I would recommend some people on these threads with desires to becoming a professional pilot take notice.

well done mate, enjoy it. 😉
😉

Many thanks mate, your words really mean a lot to me and I was honestly very touched by what you said above. I can’t give too much away about the job at the moment, but hopefully within the next couple of weeks I’ll be able to fill you in a bit more.

Thanks again buddy, and thanks for all your support along the way…I owe you a drink!

Alex,

Skycruiser is most certainly not the type of guy who looks down on any pilot just because he flys 747s. Quite the reverse in fact, he has been very supportive of me throughout my training and has many times commended my desire to fly anything at all whether it be a Tiger Moth or a A380. I had not wanted to mention this yet, and I will not yet be mentioning it in the Commerical forum, but I have recently secured my first airline job which I will be starting in March. It’s not flying 737s or A320, not even BAe 146s or Jetstreams, but I will be flying an eight seater PA-31-350 Chieftan on regional scheduled services in the UK. As a bus driver as opposed to a sunday flyer I have respect for both parties, but I sometimes feel there is not enough understanding of flying as a profession as opposed to doing it as a hobby. I think far too many people thing of us commercial guys as ‘fly boys’ who just want to be doing it for the money, uniform and women. Inside all over us with only a very few exceptions there is a very deep love of flying and basic aviation and that is what fuels us to go into work each day and fly to a schedule and to a strict code. No one is looking down on anyone else here.

In addition to this I can assure you that you are totally mistaken with my attitude Alex and I must say that your belief that I want to only do the bear minimum to become an FO is unfounded and totally untrue. In fact I have done so many added ratings, extra flying, and additional studying of subjects that are not necessary to gaining an ATPL all out of choice and because I want to be a safe efficient commercial pilot with a total understanding of what I’m doing. I would actually pride myself on my commitment and time spent on my chosen career, and although this may sound somewhat arrogant, this is probably the reason why I have gained a job several months before finishing my training when there are probably 400 or 500 guys in a similar situation in the UK who are out of work because they did the bear minimum or just don’t give it 120%. I have explained my reasoning behind not doing my spin training, I lost a good friend through it and after the event I promised both his brothers, his mother and my own family that I would not do my practical spin training if they did not wish me to and I have kept my word on that whilst practising spin training for probably about 40 hours in the sim (and I wish to add, this is not flight sim as you seem to have suggested here Alex). I feel a prepared as can be to pull myself out of a spin. As a ,aviation is about CRM or team work and that’s something I think we should be concentrating on more in every aspect of flying whether it be PPL standard or flying a 747, so lets all show a bit more respect for each other and get along!

Alex, get some more experience of what you are about to do and the world you’re about to enter before criticising others that have dedicated their lives to it.

Firstly, Cheers Martin, I guess some people here get a little hot under the collar very quickly.

Also, well done on getting your first job in aviation, it’s extremely hard to get the lucky break we all need to start our careers in aviation.

I would also like to point out that Martin has achieved is goals because he thinks with a level head and takes on board advice from others. I would recommend some people on these threads with desires to becoming a professional pilot take notice.

well done mate, enjoy it. 😉
😉

I think you also forgot to mention that your type of flying is actually fun! Going from A to B in an 737 is indeed just a job and really you’re just a bus driver in the sky. But one without the pressure of having to drive!

I have only ever been called a bus driver of the sky once before.

I was sat in a bar and this guy comes over and starts talking to me, we have a few beers and he asks me what I do for a living, I tell him I am an airline pilot. He then puts his beer down and kindly informs me what a crap job that must be as I am away from home and I am nothing more than a bus driver! I thank him for his kind words, and re direct the question back to him.
He then informed me he was a bacon salesman.

Damn, how jealous was I. :rolleyes:

Well I can’t see what fuss is is about.

I think you’re all lucky gits – Even Young Mr Weaver. You’re flying and that’s all that counts.

JC

This is a never ending argument, but as my two previous posts both said “most skillful pilot has the most experience ” and “much practice, and experience” both comments from pilots far better than I will ever be, and as far as I can see, the truth. If you have 500 hours aero’s and someone else 10 hours, you will be better. And the same applies to taildraggers, gliding, display flying etc..
Now if you have experience as a jet jockey, display pilot, aerobatic competitor you will be better than the straight and level weekend pilot, no question. I would have thought most ATPL’s have at least 1000 hours GA, that takes some beating for most of us weekend flyers. I only know four pilots that are not professional that have achieved that many hours. And I realise the currency issues, as would most pilots. Some may get rusty from not flying a 152, but only a hour or two, and they would be upto speed.

I would like to know what you thought us airline pilots did before we became airline pilots? I could have sworn I flew a lot in the GA circles.

I know I didn’t get my ATPL in a cornflakes packet!!!!!

Not suggesting for a minute that you did. If you read what I wrote again you will see all I said was that no any pilot can make mistakes and those that think they are automatically above that, be they commercial or GA pilots, are likely to get a shock.

I think there have been other posts on here that are less worried about this supposed GA/Commercial rift than about the suggestion, perhaps totally unfounded, that having a Commercial licence automatically makes you a better GA pilot. Certainly the amount of training on a GA aircraft will be highly relevant, but if you then only touch airliners for years and do not keep current on small aircraft then that argument starts to fail. The two incidents I mentioned were by commercial pilots who did not fly much GA. They were out of practice and were certainly not ‘better’ than the GA pilots around them at that point.

Even so this is not a problem providing that they do not automatically assume they had done nothing wrong because they “couldn’t as Commercial pilots are better”. It is not about being better or worse it is about keeping safe and current. If all you want to do is fly airliners then great, and your ongoing training will be of a level that is reflected in the responsibility given to you and the level of renumeration you receive and you will remain well and truly current on type. If you also happen to fly your Pitts as often as possible (as a commercial pilot friend of mine does) they you will remain current on that too and up to speed on GA practices such as uncontrolled airspace, Air Ground radio at grass fields and restricted circuit practices. If, however, you fall into the first group and decide, after fifteen or twenty years, that you are going to jump into a PA28 then you must accept you may not be current on some aspects of its operation!

I have winced at a couple of posts here (from both ‘sides’ of the argument) but particulary those that appear, even in a small way, to suggest someone can sit in ANY cockpit and assume they are superior to both the aeroplane and any other mortal that ‘only’ flies GA aeroplanes. That is the ego talking and the start of a slippery slope and I would not want to fly with ANYONE, GA OR COMMERCIAL who exhibits that level of arrogance in the cockpit.

As a final note I am going to say that the nature of a forum like this is that things come out in black and white and often without enough thought. I will clarify. I am not criticising any one pilot or group of pilots but an attitude was inferred and it is that attitude that people have reacted to. It is an attitude that has killed people I knew and that is unnecessary. If I have misread anyone’s post and inferred wrongly I mean no offense but I stand by my comments that blind over confidence in a cockpit is as bad as pure blindness!

I know I didn’t get my ATPL in a cornflakes packet!!!!!

You mean you didn’t go to the Kelloggs school of aviation?? 😮

Also, Flying Chick….I think you have a few issues, chill out girl.

u love risk, dont u mate? 😀

Alex

I would like to know what you thought us airline pilots did before we became airline pilots? I could have sworn I flew a lot in the GA circles.

I know I didn’t get my ATPL in a cornflakes packet!!!!!

Also, Flying Chick….I think you have a few issues, chill out girl.

But the bit that WD is implicitly trying to put across (it seems to me) is that therefore airliner pilots are better pilots per se. While this may be true IF they have lots of other experience, as they often do, per se, they are by definition ONLY going to be great at airline flying. I accept that to get to be airline pilots they’ve had to learn other types of flying in lighter a/c, but without keeping up that skill, that become a dangerous ‘experience without currency’ corner and where accidents lurk. Airline flying is, as WD has said, chalk and cheese to GA, which is what Rob Rohr etc have been trying to state.

So if you want an airline pilot, hey, the system we’ve got produces great ones. If you want stick n’ rudder pilots, then we’d need to see the airline pilot’s experience in other types of aviation – because big jet driving has precious little to do with aerobatics, GA, warbird or many other types of flight. People doing these types of flying are better than airline pilots at it because that’s what they do everyday. A pilot that does both is relying on his/her GA skills, not his/her airliner flying skills.

I remember Mark Hanna saying that he would rather convert a high time Cub pilot onto something like the Avenger than a military pilot or airline captain.

In my time hanging around flying clubs I have met a lot of people who are airline pilots and who are very good. Some of these own their own GA aircraft and one of these (with an additional 6000+hours crop spraying) is going to be flying the Rearwin. However, I have also seen examples of appalling airmanship from airline pilots flying light aircraft. My instructor was almost killed when someone pulled out to take off in front of him as he was on short final. I have seen people flying overly large ‘airliner’ circuits and passing over noise sensitive areas when smaller and tidier flying would have been better.

I don’t think I am the world’s greatest pilot by a long way but I constantly strive to improve my flying and to be safe and considerate. There are plenty of airline pilots who have exactly the same attitude but there are GA pilots AND airline pilots who think they are better than this.

I have long believed the most dangerous thing you can take into a cockpit is an unswerving belief in your own infallability and, getting back to the original point of this thread, this is something I have tried to point out to Ruprecht as he shows signs that he could be the sort of person to do this and that will be dangerous. I may be wrong, he may be fine but I don’t want to read about him in the papers.

I also have a rule of thumb. Anyone who tells me they are better than me is generally wrong at some level.

MH