Bermuda Triangle Avengers

🙂 Thanks for all the replies,i wish you all well in trying to talk some sense into a very strange organisation with a strange attitude,good luck.:)

trumper,

It would take 30 to 40 pages to explain this whole case, but let me try to make it easy.

In the mid-80 a researcher was doing some Oceangraphic work and came across the TBD he contact a friend of mine who ID the plane as a TBD. Well the Next thing was Doug got involved he offered the Navy the location of the TBD and would help recover it in exchange for a F4F and FG-1.

Well the Navy want see evideance of said TBD so Doug recovered the Wind screen and a few other parts to get the ID. this all took place over a ## of years mean while the Navy Leadership change and incomes the present people who to but it nicly are abunch of ASS’s. Well the renigged on the deal after Doug had given them the location.

Ended up going to court were both sides sort of won, the bottom line is we have a historical aircraft sitting in 750 feet of water that has Coral Sea history and might have been one of the survivers from Midway. The USN does’nt want to do anything but give all of us who do recoverys a hard time that is why I’ve started a pettion to force the US Congress to make the Navy adopt the same recovery rules as the USAF, US Army, and the US Coast Guard.

If you go to the warbird resource groups site and click Nav-Ops you can find more info. or if you wish e-mail me off line and I can give alot more detail. That goes for anyone who is intersest in this whole mess.

Thanks CrazyMainer

Originally posted by trumper
😀 Thanks for the answer,does seem strange though,if someone is prepared to finance any costs and losses and it’s not a grave then what difference does it make to the US Navy.:(

That’s the money question trumper. Nobody knows for sure. I don’t think the Navy has ever given a reasonable explanation for their policy. (and maybe not even an unreasonable one!) You might drop by the link below for more answers.
http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/vafrefugees/navwaropsmsgboard.mv

😀 Thanks for the answer,does seem strange though,if someone is prepared to finance any costs and losses and it’s not a grave then what difference does it make to the US Navy.:(

Trumper, Doug Champlin and others have been fighting with the Navy to recover the TBD (the last of its kind) for many, many years. I don’t know all the details but I think the Navy has written it off as uneconomical to salvage yet they are still unwilling to let anyone else near it. The story has more twists and turns in it than I’m able to keep up with.

Originally posted by Papa Lima
TBD (Torpedo Bomber, Douglas) Devastator, first delivery to US Navy 25 June 1937. 3-seat torpedo bomber with Twin Wasp radial engine.

Thanks for that but “why” can’t they recover this “this certain TBD” ???:)

TBD (Torpedo Bomber, Douglas) Devastator, first delivery to US Navy 25 June 1937. 3-seat torpedo bomber with Twin Wasp radial engine.

Originally posted by crazymainer
Hi All,

Dave to your question about raising them, I can tell you from first hand experaince that the USN will not give anyone permission to recover anything off the coast of Florida. (it has to do with a certain TBD).

Now for five TBMs near each other this not really suprising if you consider that the area was a know training area. I know of a location near San Diago Cal. that has 6 Corsairs with in 600 yards of each other. (Deep Water)

Iwas wondering does anyone know how we here in the States can get a copy of this show

Sorry,what does the TBD mean and why wont they allow the recovery :confused:

Remember Spielberg’s “Close Encounters ..”? The Avengers were found in the desert, present time, batteries fully charged, engines ready to start.

It is indeed a good story!

It has a little to do with money, I believe. There was a “bestseller” book about the Bermuda Triangle. Some years after I discovered a paperback by a librarian, that had researched every instance – ships and planes. Very amusingly he put every story “to rest”. (Sorry! Can’t prove it tonight)

Best regards

That’s cool, Dave. I meant myth, wrong word came out 🙂

I find the whole thing quite fascinating.

Originally posted by duxfordhawk
Its been reported that other Mariners have also exploded for no apparent reason …

Don’t you just hate it when people explode:D

The sad fact is that it’s not hard to see how an entire flight could crash into the water. In the Air Force you only fly close formation for airshows or penetrating the weather. The worse it is, the closer you get. Can’t afford to loose your flight lead at a time like that.

When you’re in the soup lead could fly you inverted and you’d never know. He’s lost, running low on fuel, the weather’s bad, he looks down to study a chart, or he just plane screws up. Next thing you know a flight is gone.

Chris,

I wasn’t dismissing anything a s a hoax, just as a myth. There is big difference. As I said, for the size of the area and its known weather conditions, it’s nothing special compared with any other track of ocean as far as accidents.

Crazy, it was made by the BBC with the Discovery Channel so no doubt will air/has aired in the USA. Maybe someone local to you has recorded it. I didn’t unfortunately.

Hi All,

Dave to your question about raising them, I can tell you from first hand experaince that the USN will not give anyone permission to recover anything off the coast of Florida. (it has to do with a certain TBD).

Now for five TBMs near each other this not really suprising if you consider that the area was a know training area. I know of a location near San Diago Cal. that has 6 Corsairs with in 600 yards of each other. (Deep Water)

Iwas wondering does anyone know how we here in the States can get a copy of this show

Originally posted by Dave Homewood

As for the Mariner, this was not unexplained. It was seen by a ship’s crew to explode, which was a common occurrence in Mariners – hence their nickname of the flying gas-tank.

Fair enough. I guess you give an inch and mile gets taken for a good fable, myth or story to develop.

However, before dismissing all the is as a hoax, check this link out…
There’s a fair number of aircraft missing in there….
http://www.bermuda-triangle.org/html/lost_aircraft.html

Indeed Duxfordhawk, but I meant that there were no ‘unnatural causes’ behind the area, as Hollywood would have you believe.

Those exact same conditions that lead to spacial disorientation happen over the Pacific or any ocean. Read “Too Young To Die” by Bryan Cox and you’ll see it happened near Green Island in the Pacific to a flight of 11 Corsairs, and 8 were lost, a worse tragedy than the BT one. But explained, simply because three made it home and told the story (including Bryan).

They talked about the gas pockets in the doco and even scientifically re-enacted it for the first time proving the theory. The first time they filmed and realised the phenominon was not in the BT but in the North Sea. It’s totally a natural thing, and not exclusive. It happens on every coastline.

As for the Mariner, this was not unexplained. It was seen by a ship’s crew to explode, which was a common occurrence in Mariners – hence their nickname of the flying gas-tank.

Originally posted by turbo_NZ
Maybe, but wasn’t there a Martin Mariner that went looking for the TBM’s and exploded soon after take off for no apparent reason ?

Its been reported that other Mariners have also exploded for no apparent reason i don’t have any details on this though.

Its seems as with all myths the myth around the “Triangle” is based on some shread of fact,The area the Bermuda triangle covers is known for dangerous waters and little unpredictable place weather wise,they believe many ships may have been sunk by gas pockets which make the water around the ship lighter and eventually sink the ship,The landscape has led to many Aircraft losses as there is little to use as a datum point and its easy to got disorientated this in effect is what has ment to have happened to the lost Avengers

Maybe, but wasn’t there a Martin Mariner that went looking for the TBM’s and exploded soon after take off for no apparent reason ?

The BBC documentary I watched last night showed brand new crystal clear film of the planes, as they went back in a submarine. Previously they’d never been down and had only used a remote camera. They managed to identify at least two of the planes and whom their crew had been, etc. One had gone missing in 1943, so predated the ‘five’ by two years. Another was in the records as crashing after a collision and losing its tail – and yes, it has no tail. This is real I belive, not a hoax.

Also, a British researcher decided to look into the records and determine what had happened to the real flight of five Avengers. His calculations seemed to be very logical and he pinpointed that they were on the opposite side of the Florida Key from what they thought, and were heading out to sea. He marked a spot where they would have crashed and it was at least 100 miles off shore, nowhere near where the other five were found.

The Bermuda Trinangle as a whole is just a huge myth. There are no special forces swallowing planes and ships. Apparently for the size of the area, it has lost no more ships or planes than any other aarea of cean on the planet. It is a place of bad weather, so often the remains are not found. That’s why the myth evolved. There is a logical explanation for everything. The BT is just something Hollywood has enjoyed scaring kids with.