I wonder if anyone can help with some expert assistance re Bf 109 armament. I am researching a pilot of 253 Squadron who was shot down on 30 October 1940. The squadron ORB states that he reported that his Hurricane was damaged by a fixed fun on a 109 firing backwards. The pilot later recounted this story in a family letter. I thought 109 armament was all forward firing. Were some fitted with backwards firing?
Thanks
By: alexfax - 1st August 2011 at 03:27
messy history
Hallo James
history (or at least modern interpretation/recording) is indeed messy!
Take the location of Sergeant Moore’s crash for instance. The 253 Squadron ORB form 541 states the aircraft was hit near Northfield. The form 540 states he crashed 3.5 miles south of Graves End. Francis Mason Battle over Britain (1990) p. 380 states the farm was at Northfleet, and Wynn Men of the Battle of Britain (1999) p. 358 and The Battle of Britain Then and Now Mk IV p532 states that it was at Southfleet.
Thanks all for comments and assistance
cheers, alexfax
By: JDK - 30th July 2011 at 12:27
One of the interesting things we are losing with the modern ‘tidying up’ of first hand historical accounts is contemprary beliefs and understanding, now known to be erroneous – such as the various mythical ‘surprise defences’ such as this non-existant rear facing gun and others. The best example of this is all the Battle of Britain He 113 fighters claimed at the time, but never found in the modern accounts.
Real history’s messy and full of odd errors.
By: alexfax - 30th July 2011 at 10:33
Bf 109 or…
Thanks Andy. It was indeed Peter John Moore. He obviously believed his attacker was an oddly armed 109 but you get the implication from the orb wording that they doubted this but were not outright refuting. Mason and BoBThen and Now Mark IV both mention a HE 111 on the day but no time so I can’t tell if it’s unit was part of the afternoon action or an earlier one. Cheers
By: pogno - 30th July 2011 at 10:30
I am no expert but have never heard of any rearward firing gun on a 109, and for mechanical and aerodynamic reasons I think it almost impossible to engineer. And thats ignoring the difficulty of aiming the thing if you could find a way of fitting it.
It is possible that it was a Ju87 which doesnt look much like a 109 or an Arado Ar96 which might be confused with a 109, a small number of these did have a rear facing gun. Although in the heat of combat it must have been very easy to make a mistaken identification or be confused as to where gunfire was originating from.
Richard
By: Arabella-Cox - 30th July 2011 at 10:10
The short answer, Alex, is no!
Possibly he was hit by someone else, unseen to him, as he crept up on a 109 and later assumed he had been hit by the 109 in front.
Some He 111 aircraft had fixed guns in rear of tail cone…but a different animal!
This must be Sgt P J Moore?
Sign In
July 30, 2011 at 9:34 am