Bf. or Me?

The Ta152 was designed by Kurt Tank and was a Focke-Wulf product.

Exactly my point…..I don’t think there was ever a ‘Kurt Tank GmbH/AG’ but the Luftwaffe abbreviation was chosen to reflect the designer rather than the manufacturer.

Most biographies I have read of Luftwaffe pilots tend to use ‘Emil’ or ‘Gustav’ as the common term for the 109

Of the two choices offered I personally favour ‘Bf’ but I’m reasonably convinced there is no right & wrong answer.

Moggy

And welcome to ‘Short C’ 🙂 Please stick around and post more often.

Yes some pilots used the phonetic name,some used other diminutives,some used derogitary names especially with the later versions but I have read many autobios and have never seen the term ‘Bf’ used by a german pilot.Will have to try and look at some books this w/e if I remember.

cheers baz

Talking of Messerschmitt……

On my first visit, in 1993, to the Russian AF museum at Monino we were shown around by a old GPW veteran who had flown Lend-Lease B-25’s.

He was stood in front of the Soviet I-16 fighter and was telling us all about it in Russian -which I couldn’t understand – but I did pick up the word ‘Messerschmitt’ amongst all the Russian.

Imagine my surprise when our lady interpreter from Intourist (who obviously hadn’t a clue about aviation) translated this into English as ‘The Mr Smith plane’ 😮

Made me chuckle anyway……. 😀

Ken

The mister Smith plane indeed.:D:D Not surprised you had a chuckle at that, I’d have been rolling on the floor laughing.

Thanks to all who took the trouble to reply.

It seems that both Bf.109 and Me.109 are equally valid.

How long before a more ‘mature’ forum member re-directs us to a previous thread…

…probably from before some of us were born! :diablo:

Anyway, here is my go at this game for us newbies…

Willy Messerschmitt had a small aeroplane company but designed the 109 and 110 for the Nazi regime who wanted to re-arm quickly. So the Nazi regime created a much bigger aeroplane company ‘Bayerflugzeug’ to actually build the 109 and 110 but then sold all the shares (as had been agreed) to Willy Messerschmitt.

And the Luftwaffe system was to abbreviation the manufacturer rather than the designer in the designation…

…(so both ways are correct)…..until they got to the Ta152? :confused:

How did I do? 🙂

Fine – until the last line. The Ta152 was designed by Kurt Tank and was a Focke-Wulf product. IIRC he also designed the Fw190 and the Ta152 was the logical progression from the 190D.

Most biographies I have read of Luftwaffe pilots tend to use ‘Emil’ or ‘Gustav’ as the common term for the 109

These are from the German phonetic alphabet. E=Emil, G=Gustav etc. Hence the long-nosed Fw190 was the Dora.
Anyone know if the Fw190A was the Anton? And what was the Bf109D called? Two doras could be confusing!

To me it’s always seems, or at least usually, to have been written Bf.109, Bf.110 but spoken Me.109, Me.110

… I would say that you could probably bet your bottom dollar that almost nobody in the luftwaffe called them ‘BF’

Most biographies I have read of Luftwaffe pilots tend to use ‘Emil’ or ‘Gustav’ as the common term for the 109

Of the two choices offered I personally favour ‘Bf’ but I’m reasonably convinced there is no right & wrong answer.

Moggy

And welcome to ‘Short C’ 🙂 Please stick around and post more often.

First time posting on this forum, so this information may already be available.

MAN AG and a number of German banks purchased the ompany Otto-Fluzeugwerke and formed a new company – Bayerische Flugzeugwerke AG (Bavarian Flying Machine Works LTD). By the end of WWI Bayerische Flugzeugwerke was one of, if not the, biggest aircraft manufacturer in Germany and had over 3000 employees.

The end of WWI hit Bayerische Flugzeugwerke hard as the military demand for aircraft o longer existed in Germany. Due to the woodworking skills and machinery used in manufacturing WWI type aircraft the company started manufacturing furniture and kitchen units. From 1921 they also manufactured motorcycles under the names of Flink and Helios

In 1921/2 BFW was bought by the German government.

Bayerische Flugzeugwerke (BFW) was reformed in 1926 in Augsberg, Bavaria when the company Udet-Flugzeugbau GmbH was changed into a joint stock company. It is interesting to note that BMW AG had a stake in the company in the early years.

Willy Messerchmitt joined the company in 1927 as chief designer and engineer.

In 1935, based on the performance of the record winning Bf 108 Taifun (Typhoon) sports plane the company was invited to submit a design for the Luftwaffe’s fighter contest. The result, which won, was the Bf 109.

In July 1938 Bayerische Flugzeugwerke was reconstituted as Messerschmitt AG. This renaming of the company resulted in its RLM (Reichsluftfahrtministerium / Reich Aviation Ministry) designation being changed from Bf to Me-

Existing types of BFW/Messerschmitt aircraft, such as the 108 and 109, were designated Bf. All later types were designated Me.

The 109 should really be the Bf 109 and not Me 109. However, does it really matter? Whichever term is used just about everyone knows what you are talking about.

This article covers it well….

http://109lair.hobbyvista.com/index1024.htm

Talking of Messerschmitt……

On my first visit, in 1993, to the Russian AF museum at Monino we were shown around by a old GPW veteran who had flown Lend-Lease B-25’s.

He was stood in front of the Soviet I-16 fighter and was telling us all about it in Russian -which I couldn’t understand – but I did pick up the word ‘Messerschmitt’ amongst all the Russian.

Imagine my surprise when our lady interpreter from Intourist (who obviously hadn’t a clue about aviation) translated this into English as ‘The Mr Smith plane’ 😮

Made me chuckle anyway……. 😀

Ken

this subject has been done to death before,my take on it is that it does not really matter which designation is used,but I would say that you could probably bet your bottom dollar that almost nobody in the luftwaffe called them ‘BF’,my guess is that most people used a diminutive name for the a/c.
Myself I just say ‘109’,everybody knows what I am talking about;)

cheers baz

The name was ‘Bayerische Flugzeugwerke’, for the rest I’ll go with FW190uk’s theory.

Wikipedia also has a page about this by the way, quote:

BFW was reconstituted as Messerschmitt AG on July 11, 1938, with Willy Messerschmitt as chairman and managing director. The renaming of BFW resulted in the company’s RLM designation changing from Bf to Me for all newer designs after the acquisition date. Existing types, such as the Bf 109 and 110, retained their earlier designation in official documents, although sometimes the newer designations were used as well, most often by subcontractors. In practise, all BFW/Messerschmitt aircraft from 108 to 163 (not the same plane as the Me 163) were prefixed Bf, all later types with Me.

How long before a more ‘mature’ forum member re-directs us to a previous thread…

…probably from before some of us were born! :diablo:

Anyway, here is my go at this game for us newbies…

Willy Messerschmitt had a small aeroplane company but designed the 109 and 110 for the Nazi regime who wanted to re-arm quickly. So the Nazi regime created a much bigger aeroplane company ‘Bayerflugzeug’ to actually build the 109 and 110 but then sold all the shares (as had been agreed) to Willy Messerschmitt.

And the Luftwaffe system was to abbreviation the manufacturer rather than the designer in the designation…

…(so both ways are correct)…..until they got to the Ta152? :confused:

How did I do? 🙂

The company was renamed Messerschmitt (after the man himself) in july 1938 so all designs that came after that date are prefixed Me, except those already assigned Bf. So the Bf110 designed pre 1938 is bf were as the me210 were design started autumm 1938 is me210.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but the Bf. stood for Bayerflugzeug who were a company later taken over by Messerschmidt (sp?). The BoB pilots would have known of them as the Me109, I believe the Bf. prefix only came into regular usage after the war.

I’m sure someone more knowledgeable could give you a much better answer