Birkenhead Spitfire Recovery

OK, maybe a bus ride then.
http://www.wirralglobe.co.uk/display.var.1742542.0.archaeological_dig_for_spitfire_engine.php

:p

OK, maybe a bus ride then.
http://www.wirralglobe.co.uk/display.var.1742542.0.archaeological_dig_for_spitfire_engine.php

When spectators at the wire asked what was going to happen to the bits they could be truthfully told they would soon be able to see them at a museum within walking distance of the site.

😮

Ian – I have PMd you my new contact details – would be good to catch up with you – On my last visit to the museum Dougie Snr showed me quite a few artefacts consigned to a store room which he admitted to me he did not know which sites they had come from (labels having been lost in one of the floods you mentioned) – I was able to identify quite a few of the bits, but I think he had his hands full at the time and did not do anything with them – many were from the Darwen P-51C (which I have a large collection of items from at the Millom museum). Also I do have photos somewhere of quite a few of the old displays, so if Doug Jnr wants to id any of the remaining artefacts I may be able to help. I could also possibly provide a few exhibits on loan if things get back on an even keel.

I hope I’m not speaking out of turn, being neither a member of WWIG or having asked for a statement from Doug Darroch Jnr but… The museum was a privately owned concern for a long time, with WWIG using/renting space for their museum. The fort was not in the best repair and flooded several times, not helping the exhibits. For a long time the museum was not open to the public. More recently the owner put the whole fort up for sale and Doug Darroch Snr mortgaged his house and raised the money to buy it. After his father’s recent death Doug Jnr is getting the museum back up to standard. The fort is also home to a merseybeat and elvis museum, as well as being licensed for weddings and functions. These make the money which will keep it open. All but one of the founding members are now dead and one of the later (late) members appears to ‘dispersed’ parts of the collection for private gain. Too late to ask questions now. They are in the unusual situation of having nothing from digs they carried out themselves, for instance the P61 at Nantwitch and a Mustang 1 at Whitchurch. They have also lent out items for display which have been lost or stolen. In all a fairly depressing situation.
The Spitfire dig gave the opportunity to recover a local aircraft to display in its entirety in a local museum. The dig was partly funded by the Birkenhead council, attended by county archaeologists and the head of parks amongst other notables. When spectators at the wire asked what was going to happen to the bits they could be truthfully told they would soon be able to see them at a museum within walking distance of the site. We can’t do anything about the past (except moan rightously) but this dig was something of a model for the future.

:confused: I have an interesting comment from Andy Saunders ref the Fort Perch Rock museum – Bearing in mind previous posts about museums, recovery digging and items lost in the mist of time, perhaps someone at the Warplane Wreck Investigation Group can answer Andy’s question ??

I think a lot of people have been confused as to exactly what the state of play regarding this museum is. Dougie senior, whose vision the museum was, sadly died recently and I understand his son? is now owner? and intends to keep the museum open.

It was as far as I was aware a privately run concern and Dougie Senior tried all sorts of ventures to try and make it at least self financing – unfortunately this seemed to entail the aviation side of the museum being given less and less space – certainly getting larger exhibits, such as engines in, always was a bit of a problem.

However myself and several other enthusiasts have, over the past few years become increasingly alarmed at the rate at which the aviation archaeology exhibits seemed to be disappearing and no satisfactory explanation seemed to be forthcoming – I think perhaps rather than getting into a situation of repeating rumours, some comments from those actually involved with the museum could help to clear up the confusion and put people’s minds at rest?

‘Lost’ items at Fort Perch Rock

:confused: I have an interesting comment from Andy Saunders ref the Fort Perch Rock museum

Those guys have three engines of mine at Fort Perch Rock (a Merlin, Hudson P&Wradial and a 601) and an Me 110 u/c leg – loaned all pre Tangmere so a VERY long time back. I lost touch with them and was told they had folded and the collection dispersed so like other posters surprised that the museum and group still exist!! In fact, I was at first told by them that they couldnt get the engines back out because of some steps. Then I had a call from a chap who had bought the Fort for a nightclub and was I interested in any of the aeroplane bits there, but never heard back from him again.

Bearing in mind previous posts about museums, recovery digging and items lost in the mist of time, perhaps someone at the Warplane Wreck Investigation Group can answer Andy’s question ??

Brickends, slate and clinker looked slightly promising but a smell of fuel from only 18 inches down proved we were not excavating a manhole. The accident report stated that the engine and one propellor blade had not been recovered from a depth of 20 feet. We didn’t find the blade. There was probably a schoolboy with a very impressive souvenir.

Congratulations – Its good to see this attempt on this site was finally successful – guess some expert Forster operation helped on this occassion Ian 😉 Did you find the armament & was the recovery filmed for TV as discussed – if so any idea when it will be aired? PM on its way to you.

Interesting post!

The overall condition of the rudder pedals is amazing. Please post an update with pics of the merlin after it is cleaned up.

Good post – thanks

When I lived in the area it was called ‘Fort Perch Rock’

Has the name changed or was that a Top Gear inspired error?

Moggy

The front of the engine was at 16 feet, the prop boss had broken off and was lying with the rest of the wreckage. There was very little fuselage skinning except the sides of the cockpit, radio and accumulator hatches. All this was in a compacted ball about 3 feet thick, with almost vigin clay above. The site was marked with an area of rubbish backfill under the turf. Brickends, slate and clinker looked slightly promising but a smell of fuel from only 18 inches down proved we were not excavating a manhole. The accident report stated that the engine and one propellor blade had not been recovered from a depth of 20 feet. We didn’t find the blade. There was probably a schoolboy with a very impressive souvenir.

What was your max depth, I have know fighters down to 15ft (for the engine) are fairly common. The only proper dive in Spitfire I have helped dig was about 12-14ft to the limit of engine wreckage but the breaches of the cannons were at 8ft so the muzzles were at about 16ft.

What is that excavator doing in the photo of engine, looks like it’s about to fall into the hole.

With top quality finds still deeply buried in the hole, we said he was not getting payed untill they was all recovered:D

excavator

The machine was old. It was like a viking funeral but without the flames. We were all very moved.

What is that excavator doing in the photo of engine, looks like it’s about to fall into the hole.

Before & after

The Warplane Wreck Investigation Group from Merseyside completed a very successfull Spitfire dig over the weekend. The plane was a Mk IIa from 57 OTU Hawarden and was abandoned over Birkenhead on 14/10/42, burying itself from 10,000″ in Birkenhead park. Being, apparently, the north’s only grade one listed park it took WWIG two years and enormous paperwork to sort it out. Pretty much everything came out from depth of 16 feet and will be displayed, with the exception of a couple of trinkets, in the excellent Fort Perch Museum. Would say more but Top Gear beckons. Ian

Supermarine pedals before & after cleaning recovered of Spitfire MK2a P7533 on saturday 6th october

Snowdonia parts

Some are still there: Whitley engine, C 47 door, He 111 engine, bits of the Ventura etc. I’m not a member of WWIG and can’t make an informed reply but it is still a fine museum. Ian.

What happened to all the parts from high ground sites in Snowdonia which used to be at Fort Perch?

Garry.

Well done and I am pleased to see that WWIG is still active