Bishops….

What makes me laugh is the very idea of women bishops being voted down by the Church of England. Perhaps they need reminding who is the head of the Church

Yes The Sovereign holds the title ‘Defender of the Faith and Supreme Governor of the Church of England’. Last time I looked it was a woman and has been since 1952

So if women are not deemed fit to be bishops does that make our Sovereign not fit for the top job?

Oh, please, give over with the emotive nonsense; the vote fell short by six, so it was the Church’s arcane voting rules which defeated the motion. In (almost) every other society, a simple 50+% = a majority, but they need over 60%, which leaves me (and many others) baffled.

Not sure what that means, paul, but my point is that as I don’t see any rational connection, the sex of the Sovereign is irrelevant to the question.

charliehunt or why it should not then.

I am not a member nor am I believer but I still do not see the rationale that just because by tradition our Sovereign, male or female, is the Supreme Governor, it should follow that the Church should appoint women bishops.

I don’t care either way but am merely looking at the logical argument.

I do not believe in God,any God. I believe in trying not to hurt my fellow inhabitants of this planet with a few exceptions(nonces being one)

What makes me laugh is the very idea of women bishops being voted down by the Church of England. Perhaps they need reminding who is the head of the Church

Yes The Sovereign holds the title ‘Defender of the Faith and Supreme Governor of the Church of England’. Last time I looked it was a woman and has been since 1952

So if women are not deemed fit to be bishops does that make our Sovereign not fit for the top job?

That is the problem isn’t it. There should be perceived moral leadership from the church, the politicians, the schools, the media, and our professional leaders generally. But there is little or none.

The church is quarrelling with itself, our political leaders display self-interest above all else, many of our schools are lead by spineless teachers interested in almost anything bar teaching their children, the media, with a few honourable exceptions, has readership/viewers as its overriding concern and the truth and integrity can go hang and many local politicians represent the worst of all these evils.

We no longer look up to or trust many of those we used to respect.

Ah, of course, because only those with organised religious beliefs have any morality! :rolleyes:

Well as individuals no one is achieving very much–are they..??
The advertising and money men are winning hands down at present.
I’m no supporter of the church but isn’t offering a moral lead what they are paid for..?

Someone, somewhere needs to make a stand soon in my ‘onest guv.

This podcast is very apposite, however the human race is extinguished.

http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/worldservice/discovery/discovery_20121112-2000a.mp3

I agree – 10,000 years after we’re gone, human existence will just be one more thin archaeological layer near the top of the Earth’s crust, with only some of the biggest constructions still showing on the surface.
Maybe some time in the far future some reptilian scientist studying the plastic layer will pronounce that we were very good at fashioning circuit boards…

…. but when you think of all the billions of galaxies out there, each with their own billions of star/planet systems like ours, a human life (or even every human on the planet) is really of no more consequence or importance than any grain of sand on a beach.

Exactly right. So the human race will probably destroy itself, although not the planet, as that has billions of years before it dies. We will undoubtedly be succeeded by other species who will grow and die. Our time here is a microcosm in the life of the universe and not much more in the life of the Earth.

…what appears to be the moral vacuum at the heart of British society, I might also suggest to the leaders of the CofE that they stop arguing and get off their indolent backsides and start offering some moral leads.

Ah, of course, because only those with organised religious beliefs have any morality! :rolleyes:

That is true and rather adds weight to my contention that at the present time the majority of people have a desire to “believe” in something.

It’s entirely human to want our lives to mean something, and to believe someone or ‘something’ is looking after us.

Humans are the first species to really become self-aware, and we like to think of ourselves as something special, above the ‘lower orders’ of life.

The truth is, we are this planet’s cancer – the one species Mother Earth could safely do without. We can buy big houses, have ‘important’ jobs, dress in the finest clothes, and evolve complex technical societies, but when you think of all the billions of galaxies out there, each with their own billions of star/planet systems like ours, a human life (or even every human on the planet) is really of no more consequence or importance than any grain of sand on a beach.

Having started this thread and read all the comments, I tend towards thinking that senior members of the Church Of England should read it too.
They then might realise that they appear to be irrelevant to the majority here, and although this isn’t anything like a representative cross-section, I suspect irrelevant to a huge majority in wider society.
Seems like the vote the other day was just another step on the road to oblivion for them.
While my own spiritual views remain my own business (assuming I have any), after reading the other thread here (and commenting on it) regarding what appears to be the moral vacuum at the heart of British society, I might also suggest to the leaders of the CofE that they stop arguing and get off their indolent backsides and start offering some moral leads.
They might then become less irrelevant.

but ‘belief’ in other, non-scientific, things growing: Astrology, Tarot-Cards or UFOs at an all-time high.

That is true and rather adds weight to my contention that at the present time the majority of people have a desire to “believe” in something. Often the wackier the better. Christianity at least has a long heritage based on historical events, as do most of the other “great” religions. None of the others, such as those you have mentioned and dozens of others do, as far as I am aware.

…will material objects or scientific discovery be the idol of the 50th century inhabitants of this planet?

It is interesting to compare the fortunes of religion and science in the twenty-first century.

I’d say that ‘faith’ in science is at an all-time low despite the fact that our lives have been transformed by it; in the last twenty years never mind the last hundred. One of the great impacts that science has had on religion is that we now inhabit a universe immeasurably larger that when, say, the Bible was written. I wonder how much more ‘important’ people felt back then; only the Sun, the Moon, the Stars and Earth at the centre of it all?

And what of religion? Christianity, in the UK at least, at an all-time low but ‘belief’ in other, non-scientific, things growing: Astrology, Tarot-Cards or UFOs at an all-time high. One of the great strengths of religion is that while it can offer much, non-religious, comfort during life on Earth, it never has to deliver (or prove that it delivers) on anything after that. Maybe people think the other, non-scientific, ‘beliefs’ offer a slightly better deal these days?

It’s good to see religious tolerance is still practiced in the UK. :rolleyes: 😀

Rather ironic that today is the day before the American Thanksgiving holiday, which grew out of the Plymouth Colonies, whose members fled England for religious freedom.

Indeed, but they weren’t trying to escape from the Atheists! 😉

The Romans kept amazingly detailed records about who they ruled, jailed, and executed, but there is absolutely no mention of a Jesus in any historic record.

They did indeed compile detailed records – but for how long did they keep them before the older documents became winter fuel for the record-keepers’ office fireplace? I doubt whether any list of trials and executions from that era still exist.

There would no doubt have been a steady flow of official bumph between Pilate’s office and the imperial civil service back in Rome (in both directions), but none of it survived. The only historical evidence that Pilate himself ever existed is a single inscription found in 1961.

The persistent speculation over the fate of the 9th Legion (Legio Nona Hispana) shows that we cannot even rely on the surviving records to keep track of an entire legion, let alone a single individual.

[QUOTE=Al;1953654]The Romans kept amazingly detailed records about who they ruled, jailed, and executed, but there is absolutely no mention of a Jesus in any historic record. QUOTE]
Ever considered that, since the body went missing, the powers-that-be decided to expunge all of the records, rather than face awkward, possibly life-threatening, questions?

Yes, of course it is. I was only responding to your comment “Why do we need to believe in something?”

Nor me, but I respect those who do.

I suggested self-belief and many other options – your wife, your children…..perhaps. I would not believe someone who told me that they believed in nothing.

I guess it depends on the context. Belief in your family is different to a belief in some god. I personally do not need such belief, but maybe one day?