Black out at RAF Museum?

Originally posted by Hatton
In what way is a T.35 Mossie, a milestone of flight?

Just a small bit of pedantry on my behalf… TJ138 is a Mosquito TT35 – a target tug – not a T35 which would make it a trainer… Thats despite the fact that it started out as a B35 – a bomber!
I attach the only good point (I think) of the Mossie being mounted in the way that it is…

Flood.

How about we email a link to this thread to someone senior at Hendon?! This isn’t the first long thread we’ve had on this subject, and yet another has appeared today. Suggestions about who is best to contact, rather than using the general contact form on their website?

1. Lighting

2. Food

3. Perches!

4. Milestones-oh, really?

Answers, please Hendon! 😡

I am now as peeved as Lancman. In my opinion, a ridiculous way to display aircraft.

Originally posted by Slybird
Going back to the original complaint of it being to dark in these times of nothing being possible without a mass of procedure and paperwork you will probably find that to get to lamps over a certain height a risk assessment,method statement, special training for a mobile working platform and harness training is required before you start, plus special provision for the disposal of the old lamps due to enviromental issues so its cheaper to leave them switched off!!, after all who wants to see a load of old planes only ‘joe public’ and they don’t even pay to get in now! so save electricity, save on cleaning and maintainance ‘cos no one can see the dirt which means more money to spend on ‘budgie’ perches or hanging apparatus (Don’t start on that subject)

😡

Humph. And what about the health and safety risk to people – visitors – tripping over and hurting themselves?
Like I said, when it is so dark that an old chap had to peer at a display board whilst bending over then surely there is a chance that someone will go head over heels and injure themselves.
Compensation claims, anybody?

Flood.

Going back to the original complaint of it being to dark in these times of nothing being possible without a mass of procedure and paperwork you will probably find that to get to lamps over a certain height a risk assessment,method statement, special training for a mobile working platform and harness training is required before you start, plus special provision for the disposal of the old lamps due to enviromental issues so its cheaper to leave them switched off!!, after all who wants to see a load of old planes only ‘joe public’ and they don’t even pay to get in now! so save electricity, save on cleaning and maintainance ‘cos no one can see the dirt which means more money to spend on ‘budgie’ perches or hanging apparatus (Don’t start on that subject)

😡

As a photographer, yes, I was disappointed: but as an enthusiast I was extremely disappointed too. Some of the aircraft are big but there really is no way to gauge how big the Valiant is, for example, because it is buried. The Ju88R in the BoB hall was also buried; I believe from my previous studies that it should have a square tail but I couldn’t see enough on Thursday to justify that belief. The Bf109e was buried because it was facing nose out to the viewer under the Ju88s wing. The walkways around the P47D were closed so all that could really be seen of it was the front end, in fact lots of the airframes were positioned so that you could only see the front or nose – the Seagull in the BoB hall or the Hanriot in the Grahame-White Factory are good examples that spring to mind, both jammed into corners.
If you think of the airframe as a canvas then we are not seeing the whole picture…(Especially when it is dark).

Flood.

Peter is right, ‘George’ down under has now moved up into the position of the best displayed surviving operational Lancaster. Given Sugar’s legendary, untouchable staus of achievements, Hendon should really, really take note, and try something really new in a hall that isn’t the BoB one for a change. :rolleyes:

I haven’t paid a “proper” visit to Hendon for a long time. There was a fleeting visit with a couple of ex-RAF erks approaching two years ago. We intended to return this year and two of us still will. The other sadly died just before the new year but I have a wonderful memory of his face as he looked down the length of the main building. Gobsmacked doesn’t come close. Until a few weeks beforehand he hadn’t realised there were any aircraft at Hendon.
I went several times over a period of around ten years, starting mid-seventies I would think. I don’t remember it being particularly dark then. Is this a recent thing?
I have only eaten once in the restaurant, late seventies I guess, and I really don’t recall whether it was good, bad or expensive.
I did intend to the last time I went for the day but, fortunately, was warned of the prices by the very nice lady on the till before we had chance to pay. Next time I shan’t bother. I saw a couple of cafes near Apex Corner so I’ll head back that way.

Heres a couple of thoughts

Great thread guys
Didnt think it would turn into a teddie toss at hendon!!

As far as I know I havenever been to Hendon unless it was when I was only 3 or 4 back when the Beverly was outside…… I totally agree with Lancman that the way 868 is being treated is rediculous! Get her arse down off that stupid perch for starters and if her condition is warranting it then do a complete overhaul cosmetic or otherwise.

Someone mentioned that museums are not meant to be catered to photos and that the aircraft should be portrayed in their element for younger generations. This is a good idea but to do this you turn out the lights on the lancaster???! What a load crap that is! If you want to make people stop and really think about lanc crews and what they went through then Hendon should do with the lanc what the Aussies did with Lancaster G George! Get the whole feel of a bomber raid from briefing etc to landing back after the raid. From what I have read about it, it is an an incredible sight to see and leaves you thinking about the sacriufices those young lads made..

Now as far as food goes, arent air museums supposed to be about preserving the best of british and other aircraft not lets see sho has the finest chefs!!!

Museum Purpose.

Airgage
I agree with you that the RAF Museum isn’t there just for the benefit of photographers.
Like I said previously back in the early days there was no flash photography permitted and tripods weren’t allowed either.
Neither is the museum’s purpose to provide a free afternoon trip out because the kids don’t get as bored as they do at Homebase.
I believe the original goal of the museum was to provide a fitting tribute to the very great achievements of the Royal Air Force.
Whether it’s my old mate Ernie who lost his tug at Arnhem (see above) or a highly decorated air marshal it’s their regimental museum and should treated with the respect it deserves.
If it’s going to be just another aircraft museum it could be renamed—how about ‘The Colindale Aircraft Repository’?
Until I started writing on this thread I didn’t realise I strongly I felt about it.
Oh and Lancman I’m 41 and I’ve been going there since I was at junior school—so at some point I must have witnessed decent catering.
I do have some vague recollection of me and mate having sausage and chips there about 1985, which was at least eatable.
All the best
Andy Jones

😎 😎 😎 😎

I realise the photographers here won’t like it but here is a thought. Please read all the post and salient points before firing off!

Perhaps darkness/low lighting is an attempt at atmosphere.

It is difficult to show an aeroplane in a sterile museum hangar with any impact, hence why Old Warden/DX T2 hangars and DX restoration areas work.

If you have machines designed to kill people, camauflaged and often operated at night then jusy maybe it is imaginitive to put them in a darker area so that younger generations can use their imagination.

I haven’t been to Hendon recently so this is a supposition based on the comments here.

We should remember that a museum is not a location to use as a photgraphic excercise but to display artefacts. All these aircraft are well documentedin photographic form. I know it is nice to take a self-generatetd pictorial souvenir home (I have plenty myself). Ask yourself why are the aircraft in that situation and displayed?

This is a point of view , not a defence of Hendon, maybe it provokes thought on aircraft displays……..

Finally you can bet the lighting policy will be the result of a committe decision and any change would all be as aresult of a committee decision, hence the lack of response from the museum ?

Lancman is 34 this May, and has been going to Hendon for much of his life! The real decline at the RAFM has only come about in more recent years, I think.

Food, lighting etc etc may only be small quibbles to some, compared to the thrill of seeing such wonderful and rare airframes in person, but to me, as a semi-regular, I want to see those airframes treated with some dignity because of that very same rarity. You want it to be a place of pride, not some gloomy place where staff don’t give a s**t anymore.

And while I’m ranting on about the place…okay, so the Lanc should ideally be a matt black; though, later war Lancs ended up a little bit more shiny. But what fool decided that once conservation/repair work on her lower fuselage skins was completed, they would repaint the Lanc so that it now looks like nothing more than a damn stupid patchwork quilt of different shades/finishes of black?!

That aircraft, ‘office broom’ Lancaster that it may be, completed well over a hundred operational missions over Germany. Not only is it a surviving complete Lancaster, uber-rare in it’s own right, but it was also operational, and scored a resounding great big two fingers over the usual survival odds. Can we say ‘Respect’, anyone?

Yet it sits there with a rapidly being-ruined paintjob, with it’s backside uselessly raised into the air for no good reason whatsoever, with two naff ‘Man At C&A’ dummies sat in the cockpit supposedly ‘landing it’. (With the bomb doors open? Oh yeah?!) In the gloom, and forever being shunted about and part-disassembled like some old wardrobe that’s in the way, to get other things in and out.

I LOVE Hendon; for all the delights offered by Duxford, it was my first aviation museum, and I’ve never forgotten it. It breaks my heart to see the way it is going now though.

😡

and another…

I recently visited the US Navy Museum at Pensacola and came away very impressed. Yes, it’s a little bit gloomy inside – but with a DSLR set at 800 ASA – no problem. (There are also about 50 aircraft displayed outside too).l

I think it’s almost inevitable that space will be a problem, but as has been mentioned, photography isn’t the be all and end all of a visit – well not quite!

BTW, I thought the food at Pensacola was good, reasonably priced and pleasantly served.

Here’s a couple of shots taken inside

Hi Glyn
Not a stupid American post at all.
Glad you enjoyed your holiday to the UK.
Don’t worry, I suspect many of us have subjected our wives to holidays like that.
I accept that museums like Hendon are repositories of our aviation heritage and therefore contain some unique aircraft. It’s just that once upon a time they almost had it exactly right and I’ve seen it slowly deteriorate and I don’t think this is the rambling of an old codger going ‘it was all better in my day’ either.
It really has been allowed to wander slowly downhill.
However I don’t know how old Lancman is but even I can’t remember the restaurant being very good.
Andy

🙁 🙁 🙁 🙁

Stupid American post ahead……

As I see it so far, here are the major complaints about Hendon:

1. Horrible lighting for photography
2. ****-poor food
3. Aircraft crammed all about, unreasonable layout

On my last trip to the UK, two years ago, I was thrilled to visit Hendon, Duxford, Cosford, and Old Warden all in the course of two weeks. How my wife, who doesn’t share my love of aviation, put up with it I’ll never know. I guess I did have to take her to enough castles and manor houses to make up for putting her through it!

Anyways – while the above critcisms of Hendon certainly have merit I have to scratch my head and wonder why these issues are such “issues” for you folks. Sure, we all love to take some good snaps when we visit a museum but if they don’t come out does that discount the experience of actually seeing the aircraft themselves? For an American like myself, getting to see S-Sugar, the only complete Valiant, the Defiant, the REAL He-111 and Me-110, etc etc etc was well worth the trip. Certainly I would have preferred to see more developed exhibits and better lighting but seeing so many one of a kind airframes more than made up for any criticisms I may have had.

On the subject of lighting – I made a trip to the new Udvar-Hazy center in Washington DC a month ago and was thinking the whole time how excited I was to share my photos with this forum. Upon getting my pictures back I was crushed at how dark they were – that being said the experience at seeing the museum in person quickly made up for my disappointment. I have had the exact same experiences at the USAF Museum in Dayton and the US Navy Museum in Pensacola. While Pensacola was lighted a bit better all three places were not friendly to photographers. In the same vein, the food at all three of these museums was atrocious.

I guess my point, if I have one, is that folks need to look at the bigger picture and leave the minor nitpicks alone. While food, lighting, and layout problems may seem like major issues to some there are many of us who relish the chance to see these planes in person and that justifies these museums in the first place.

Just my humble opinion, flame away!

Originally posted by AdamK

anyone seen our new visitor center yet?

cheers
adam

I haven’t been since the new bit opened but I expect to find a visitor centre. Is that anything like it?

Originally posted by Eddie
A friend of mine was a Dakota pilot post war in India. He told me that when they taking off whilst towing gliders, they would always have one hand on the “glider release” handle, and they were trained to pull that at the first sign of trouble. Reassuring, eh?

nothings changed in the wolrd of gliding then 🙂 well maybe the hand isnt quite on the release handle but the tug pilot would usually release in such a scenario 🙂

Maybe the job of turning them on is out to tender…?

Flood.

Will J – that is as I recall it when I last went (must have been late 70s) but with the Gladiator hulk by the stairs, opposite side of the walkway from number 7. As for locations; it all looks as about I could recall it after around 25 years.;)

Ah, the memories… Museums were lighter, in those days…

Flood.