Black powder – really?

I once saw a demonstration (I think on TV) of an anvil which was turned upside down to expose a recess in its base about 2ins square by a half inch deep. This was filled with black powder and another anvil placed on top with a fuse to set it off.

Bearing in mind the anvil weighed around 50kg, when the charge was fired it shot it around 100 feet into the air. Some kick

You should try a thunderflash locked in an inverted ammo box, that blows all the rivets out, flattens the lid and shoved the box minus handles about 60 foot into the air…… Not that we erm did such silly things….. Ever been tangoed? Orange smoke grenade dropped into a tent while someone is in their maggot turns everything bright orange, including their clothing lol…. Again no one would ever erm do that in the field. :p often wondered what the next person to use the tent thought when they unpacked it to find a bright orange interior.

Cordite is hardly any more up to date than black powder, though, is it? Developed from 1889 (OK, maybe 800 years or so younger, but not new tech even in the 1950s), and I strugge to believe that the Hunter is being started with an allegedly smokeless cartridge!

Adrian

The deliberate and controlled force of black powder has other aviation uses,

But not in engine starter carts – usually a solid piece of cordite (or similar) to provide a progressive and controlled burn pattern.

Well, well – makes complete sense now, and also explains the lack of recoil from the gun (though the bang, flash and smoke cloud had to be experienced to be believed!).
Adrian

Couple of years back there was a guy at the local range with a musket. The muzzle velocity of it was such that I could count to 4 after his gun went “whoosh” (no bang), then fire my Mosin & the bullets would arrive at the target 400 yards away at the same time 😉

(snip)

I once saw a demonstration (I think on TV) of an anvil which was turned upside down to expose a recess in its base about 2ins square by a half inch deep. This was filled with black powder and another anvil placed on top with a fuse to set it off.

Bearing in mind the anvil weighed around 50kg, when the charge was fired it shot it around 100 feet into the air. Some kick:eek:

Anon.

Anvil firing – another quaint colonial tradition. Quite a few videos on Youtube

Richard

A little about powder deflagration (the term for the burning of powder):
http://www.ctmuzzleloaders.com/ctml_experiments/bp_burning/bp_burning.html

Note the difference in burn rate between open-air and confined burning.

A lot of the hard rock cuttings and tunnels that we still travel through on the railways were “engineered” with black powder!

Well, well – makes complete sense now, and also explains the lack of recoil from the gun (though the bang, flash and smoke cloud had to be experienced to be believed!).

I shall file that under “another sexy use of old technology”.

Thanks!

Adrian

The lack of recoil (should be felt recoil) is because as stated black powder burns at a controlled rate it doesn’t explode as such, so what you get from the firing in a black powder rifle is a heavy push rather than a Jolt from say a .308 Nato round which does have the proverbial kick!!

Black powder

The black powder of today bears little relation to those of yesteryear. The ingredients may be similar but that is where the similarity ends.

Today’s black powders are mixed according to the performance required and from very predictable and accurately manufactured ingredients. Those who enjoy firing old flintlocks and different kinds of vintage forearms mix, or buy, their ingredients according to what they are trying to achieve.

Of course, as you would expect, it is much more scientific now and the results are very predictable. The cartridges in ejection seats or starter cartridges for example are precisely mixed to achieve the purpose for which they were intended. Essentially, they are a gas generator designed to provide a force of a certain value for a certain duration.

However, don’t make the mistake of thinking the old black powder isn’t powerful like our new-fangled modern substitutes – it can pack a pretty big punch indeed.

I once saw a demonstration (I think on TV) of an anvil which was turned upside down to expose a recess in its base about 2ins square by a half inch deep. This was filled with black powder and another anvil placed on top with a fuse to set it off.

Bearing in mind the anvil weighed around 50kg, when the charge was fired it shot it around 100 feet into the air. Some kick:eek:

Anon.

The deliberate and controlled force of black powder has other aviation uses,

Adrian,

I am guessing that your Flintlock was loaded with black powder and without ball or shot?

Nope, an ounce of shot (which appears to be a fairly standard load for clay shooting) plus copious quantities of fibre wadding and cardboard discs. Definitely less recoil than a modern cartridge.

Adrian

For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction, so, if nothing heavy comes out of the dangerous end of the musket then there will be no noticeable recoil. You’ll feel the shock of the powder going off but thats all.

To take your information one step further, you’ll feel the recoil of the combined mass of the powder charge and combined oxygen leaving the barrel. Still next to nothing though

Richard

For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction, so, if nothing heavy comes out of the dangerous end of the musket then there will be no noticeable recoil. You’ll feel the shock of the powder going off but thats all.

Adrian,

I am guessing that your Flintlock was loaded with black powder and without ball or shot?

I am no arms expert but I though you would get little or no recoil from powder only as there is no projectile holding back the gas. It would just be a simple venting of the gas straight out.

If you had a projectile the escaping gas round the mouth of the barrel would create the recoil.

This is how I think of it but others may have a better or scientific way of explaining it.

Well, well – makes complete sense now, and also explains the lack of recoil from the gun (though the bang, flash and smoke cloud had to be experienced to be believed!).

I shall file that under “another sexy use of old technology”.

Thanks!

Adrian

Blackpowder burns slowly, and steadily.

Quite relevant when considering your spine!

Not outdated at all.

All blackpower/cordite etc are supposed to do is to convert themsleves from a smaller quantity of solid into a larger volume of gas at the required speed. I’d imagine that the slow buring properties of blackpower plus its stability etc would make it ideal for ejection seat cartridges.