black widow

MikeJ

Silver Hill was a pretty secure area. 🙂

‘Jerry’ Billings, Spitfire fighter and display pilot, was with me. All the services were on weekend shutdown. He needed to relieve himself and went behind a storage hanger only to set the alarms ringing having triggered one of the security trip wires set in the long grass. 🙂

Mark

MikeJ

In 1972 you just didn’t jump on a plane to Washington like we take for granted today. The price of the Pan-Am round trip ticket then was about the same as you would pay now. By comparison a £1.2m Spitfire now was £12K then and salaries were pro rata.

I was invited to the Transpo at Dulles airport – my first visit to the US and the first time the Confederate Air Force had ventured out of Texas. I desperately wanted to see the Mk VII Spitfire EN474 at the Smithsonian store at Silver Hill. I was strapped for time and transport and the only day that would work was the Sunday morning. Somebody pulled some very very long strings because not only did they open up the doors out of working hours they had also pushed the unrestored aircraft out on to hardstanding for photography. Spitfire bliss.

…………… and oh yes, that Black Widow, the push me pull me Dornier and a Bearcat were stored in the open but I hardly noticed them. B/W for them – colour for the Spitfire. 😉

Mark

Here is a shot I took one Sunday morning early in June 1972 in a then very secure area. 😉

Mark

perhaps we could swap it for a………

plastic spitfire:D

Maybe they would let it go for a price,

There is a P-61A on display at the Beijing Institute of Aeronautical Engineering in Beijing, China. I am unaware of its serial number. The story of how it got there is sort of interesting. It seems that the 427th Night Fighter Squadron based in China during the war was in preparation for the return home after the end of hostilities. Just as they were were about to leave, some Communist troops came onto the field and ordered the Americans to get out immediately, but to leave their aircraft behind. The Beijing Institute Black Widow may be one of the three P-61Cs seized at that time. It is reported that the Chinese will sell the plane for 2 million dollars, but the wing spar is reportedly so corroded that the aircraft would collapse if moved. There may be other Black Widows in other locations in China.

from this site P-61

oh dear lets just ground everything and sit in front of our computers getting more and more frustrated.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHH

ok wheres that wine gum gone

Flood,

Does that mean we have to send all the Mustangs, Thunderbolts, Corsairs, Harvards, Grumman Cats, Yaks, Buchons, Bollingbrokes, some Hurricanes etc etc etc …….. back?? I suppose we would see the return of the overseas Spitfires and Sea Furies (mainly engineless) but it wouldn’t exactly lead to much variety on the show circuit in the UK.

Other than being left behind to rot how is a P-61 part of Chinese history? I don’t really care where it is but it should be in the hands of someone who can properly care for it, flying or not.

Originally posted by Mike J
Still, it would make a nice rebuild project for someone…..

Hope we are not about to suggest that instead of sitting in a Chinese museum that Black Widow should be flying?

[RANT MODE ON]Why not take the ones from NASM or the USAFM – after all the other survivors are already in the States!:rolleyes:
I would like the genuine Bristol Blenheim, the Martinsyde Buzzard, the Blackburn Ripon, the Gloster Gamecocks and the Gauntlet to return from those museums in Finland, for example. None of them survive in Britain – but it should never ever happen, they should never return: if for no other reason than they are part of Finnish history. Same with all the other museums of the world – should they be raped of their exhibits just so that a few American airshow-goers will be quietly amused for a few seasons?
[RANT MODE OFF]

Thats better. Anyone want a winegum?

Flood.

wounder what else could be hiding in china?

Did you notice???

In the photo that Mike J posted of the chinese P-61 what would a P-47 (you catch a hint of it in the photo) be doing there and how did it get there.

Gerry

It’s pure speculation that she wouldn’t be recovered if they couldn’t fly her. There are plenty of rare aircraft that have been recovered from remote locations to sit in museums – the RAAF museum Walrus springs to mind as a remote recovery.
It’s highly likely that the Black Widow would be recovered simply because of her rarity. As for flying her over here I can see no likelyhood of this happening – the MAAM simply won’t take he risk of a twin engined crossing for such a rare machine.

sorry johnh i have to dissagree with you, it should be flown for as long as it possibly can mainly because their are millions of people who have never seen one in a museum let alone flying.lets take the case of black6 their were many people who did not want it to fly originaly because of the rarity value etc etc. Before it flew how many people born after the war could say they had seen an original BF-109-flying i sertainly couldnt. Just seeing it flying put my mind to rest about a lot of things the sound,the original look of the thing,how well it could fly etc etc.The black widow will be the same hopefully they will do the sensible thing and bring it over here for a season.

But i do think black6 should still be flying.

I think with just four examples it’s just too rare to fly it. We’ve seen what happened with the CAF Marauder, and there aren’t much more than four of those either. The Lone Star Museum’s taken a sensible approach with their A-20 and have never flown it.

JH

I’m not sure that the identity of the Chinese example has been established,but it’s thought it was left behind by the USAAF at the end of WW2.

By The Way
Cheers……

how did china end up with one? obviously black widows are fairly rare but how many others are their in captivity? are anymore potentialy airworthy will we ever see one over here?

cheers sparky what does BTW mean?

http://www.maam.org/p61.html[/URL]
Try this web site I think this is the one you mean:)
BTW Nice Avatar:)

tryed that googling thing last summer hurt quite a bit

I don’t know it, but Googling isn’t that difficult.

Here

Moggy