Blackbird over the Falklands?

“Hostile Skies” by D Morgan records that USMC Pilot Major William T McAtee was on exchange with the Sea Harriers of 800 squadron at time the of the Falklands conflict. Furthermore it notes that much to his disgust he was not allowed to fight alonside ‘his friends’, but his name remained painted on the cockpit of one of the SHARS. Anyone know which one?

XZ494, which had been 716 of 899 Squadron, but became black 16 of 800 Squadron on Hermes. Post war transferred in theatre to 801 Squadron and repainted as ‘008’

Quite possible, isn’t it called pride in the job. Would have been a bit embarrassing when he got shot down and captured though.
Didn’t the French provide a bit of tactical training with Etendards and Mirages v Harriers out in the Channel, yet had technicians out in Argentina training their Etendard pilots in the use of Exocets during the war.
Back to the Blackbirds, I thought that all the assistance came from sattelites, where would the Blackbirds have flown from, Ascension, wouldn’t anyone have noticed them parked amongst the Vics and Vulcs, no doubt more than one would have been commited to ops. Perhaps they were painted up in RAF camo and markings and no one noticed.

The French technicians were withdrawn. France gave all the technical assistance to the UK and provided nothing to Argentina during the conflict.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1387576/How-France-helped-us-win-Falklands-war,-by-John-Nott.html

TJ

Not all of them though……

It’s a known fact that the USMC A-4 chief instructor that had been responsible for the earlier training of the Argie Skyhawk pilots, at the start of the ‘war’, formally requested an exchange transfer back to be able to go an fight alonside ‘his’ pilots……:rolleyes:

The request was denied……:p

“Hostile Skies” by D Morgan records that USMC Pilot Major William T McAtee was on exchange with the Sea Harriers of 800 squadron at time the of the Falklands conflict. Furthermore it notes that much to his disgust he was not allowed to fight alonside ‘his friends’, but his name remained painted on the cockpit of one of the SHARS. Anyone know which one?

I remember some US passport holders (and non Argentine nationals) were detained by the Brits at the fall of Port Stanley and these had been fighting for Argentina.

Not the hook and draw move was it.
The were so lucky they never met the MIG 29 over Bosnia.

He is a fighter pilot! 😀 And certainly ‘talks a good game’…..but in the Falklands at least, he was proved right.

I looked it up to check I’d got my facts right:

“…three unnamed Sea Harrier pilots…..hardly held their own against the [Mirage III], and were certainly not trying to claim they had come out on top.

I know exactly who these three [Sea Harrier pilots] were from the remarks made by them in the report and from how they acquitted themselves in combat. They are not what you would wish to call ‘aces of the base’ in fighter combat…

Their tactics…..were inadvisable, but predictable for the individual pilots involved.”

But ‘Sharkey’ Ward CO 801 NAS dismissed the results saying he was ‘not surprised’ on finding out which pilots flew the Sea Harriers in DACT on this occasion!

Good old Sharkey, as modest and self-effacing a bloke as you’re likley to meet

Thanks Maple! – Refreshed my memory! The French deployed a twin stick Mirage III to Coningsby on the 22,23 April 1982 whic carried out DACT against 1F Squadron GR.3’s. There was also some flying done with RN pilots experiencing the Mirage. The Super Etendard DACT was carried out offshore
with no aircraft coming to the U.K.

And the Mirages won hands down! 🙁

But ‘Sharkey’ Ward CO 801 NAS dismissed the results saying he was ‘not surprised’ on finding out which pilots flew the Sea Harriers in DACT on this occasion!

I think the limiting factor with reconnaissance, either satellite or SR-71, over the Falklands was the weather. During the whole conflict there were only about seven days when the weather was good enough to allow large-scale air operations and most photo-reconnaissance sorties were carried out at low-level.

French did DACT with Harriers

I think the Belgian Air Force carried out some DACT training with Mirages. I am not aware of any French involvement.

Back to the Blackbirds, I thought that all the assistance came from sattelites, where would the Blackbirds have flown from, Ascension, wouldn’t anyone have noticed them parked amongst the Vics and Vulcs, no doubt more than one would have been commited to ops. Perhaps they were painted up in RAF camo and markings and no one noticed.

As i said the Blackbirds could and have forward operated from Puerto Rico but i am not sure when and i read that at that time the bulk of the American satelite coverage was over long term targets like Asia, Russia and the middle east and the satelites of the day had problems with cloud cover, where the blackbird could easily change course to get the best coverage a satelite would have to change orbit and that takes lots of time which was one reason why they wanted the blackbirds back for the Gulf war.

But it still begs the question did they?

curlyboy

I should be interested to know where that fact may be verified.

exmpa

Quite possible, isn’t it called pride in the job. Would have been a bit embarrassing when he got shot down and captured though.
Didn’t the French provide a bit of tactical training with Etendards and Mirages v Harriers out in the Channel, yet had technicians out in Argentina training their Etendard pilots in the use of Exocets during the war.
Back to the Blackbirds, I thought that all the assistance came from sattelites, where would the Blackbirds have flown from, Ascension, wouldn’t anyone have noticed them parked amongst the Vics and Vulcs, no doubt more than one would have been commited to ops. Perhaps they were painted up in RAF camo and markings and no one noticed.

It’s a known fact that the USMC A-4 chief instructor

I should be interested to know where that fact may be verified.

exmpa

What I really meant was ‘Must be the only time the Yanks were on our side in this fashion.’

Not all of them though……

It’s a known fact that the USMC A-4 chief instructor that had been responsible for the earlier training of the Argie Skyhawk pilots, at the start of the ‘war’, formally requested an exchange transfer back to be able to go an fight alonside ‘his’ pilots……:rolleyes:

The request was denied……:p

I remember in 1980 seeing a U2 take off from Mildenhall as I was driving past, and later on that same year, seeing an SR71 do the same… Both very early morning flights. Both types were based there full time then..:eek:

The U2 flew from Mildenhall as permanant detachment with crews rotating and the UK goverment did not mind them but they had a thing against the SR-71 and would only occassionally allow one to fly from there but that changed in 1984 when the UK goverment for no real reason allowed the SR-71to be based there and fly from there as a permanant detachment.

So you would have seen one in 1980 but it was a temporarily based one not one of the full time rotational one’s, i saw one in 1983 over norfolk and it is an amazing sight and i would trade all the Typhoon (2) and Raptors in the world to see an SR-71 fly again.

curlyboy

It does again beg the question as a couple of years later DET 4 operated full time from Mildenhall even though the British goverment had always refused full time operations of the SR71 in the UK?

I remember in 1980 seeing a U2 take off from Mildenhall as I was driving past, and later on that same year, seeing an SR71 do the same… Both very early morning flights. Both types were based there full time then..:eek:

Must be the only time the Yanks were on our side!

Bri 😀

I realised a few hours after I wrote the above that it was not really what I meant! I expected the Americans on this post to come down on me like a ton of bricks!

What I really meant was ‘Must be the only time the Yanks were on our side in this fashion.’

Mea Culpa!

Bri 😮

Must be the only time the Yanks were on our side!

I don’t know about the only time, but I do know that there was an enormous amount of assistance freely given, at all levels. Some of it was at local level and done without specific authorisation, people potentially put their careers at risk to help us. A lot of it will never come out because it does not form part of the record, but in case we were in any doubt, we found out who our real friends were.

BTW the Blackbird thing is only true if it was flown by Elvis.

exmpa

Slightly off post, I know, but when I was on a technical course with ex-USN instructors at HMS Collingwood, they told us that during the Falklands campaign, the USN crews on their carriers were glued to TV reports and were actually cheering the Limeys on to beat the **** out of the, er, enemy!

Must be the only time the Yanks were on our side!

Bri 😀

A trifle politically sensitive even today for a current or former agent of the US to admit to aerial surveilance during the Falklands conflict to provide assistance for the Brits. Can’t say that would help the North/South American relations greatly at the moment.

As to an answer, you’ve more chance of one of our NU LAbour ‘friends’ holding their hands up and stating that the whole nasty WOMD business was just a concocted ruse to open up Iraq’s oil fields and to hell with the consequences.

It’s a funny old world we live in, all is not always quite what it appears at first reading.