I have some questions about the Blackburn Baffin biplane. I can’t find much info on the type, which was important to NZ’s prewar Territorial Air Force and the General Reconnaissance squadrons immediately after the war broke out.
It seems that the Baffin was a derivative of the Blackburn Ripon, which had been a naval carrier-borne torpedo bomber. Some of the RNZAF’s Baffins had actually been converted from Ripons apparently.
So what are the fundamental differences between the two types? Was it just a different engine? Or was there more to it? This page suggests the Ripon had several engine types, including the Pegasus (which the Baffin used) http://www.answers.com/topic/blackburn-ripon
Ripons were apparently Royal Navy FAA aircraft. But the Baffins acquired for the RNZAF were all ex-RAF, so what role did they play in the RAF? Were they used as GR aircraft with them too? Or were they coastal command torpedo bombers??
I understand that Ripon RI-140 is preserved in Finland, but are there any remaining preserved Blackburn Baffins in the world? Or parts of? Have any bits of the RNZAF ones survived anywhere? (and any other Ripons for that matter?)
I’d love to see one of these beautiful old biplanes recreated here in NZ, even if just for static, but better still for flight. They were nearly as big as the Vildebeest and Vincent, so it would be quite a task, but certainly worth it. they reckon they were slow and had a small range, so weren’t suited to GR work in NZ, but I don’t think they were unpopular with their aircrews though.
A local man I have interviewed serviced Baffins with No. 3 GR Squadron in 1940. He told me they intended originally for No. 3 Sqn to be a fighter sqn, and they set up a Baffin with a machine gun firing through the prop. But on the first live firing they shot the prop off, and the second attempt had the same result. It turned out their ammo was WWI vintage and being so old was not up to the speed to be syncronised through a propellor, so they removed the gun and converted themselves into a General Reconnaissance squadron instead! Carefree days!
By: STORMBIRD262 - 27th June 2005 at 16:01
Could be Dave, I know you guy’s bought 12 Baffin’s first, and followed later by another 17, And as 60+ Ripon’s were converted, and you say some of your’s were some of them.
Those convert’s should have retained their range with the centre line tank, but Yes the original Baffin only seemed to have 450 mile’s (869 km) range, why this changed from the Ripon’s better range, I do not know!!!!
By: Dave Homewood - 27th June 2005 at 11:12
Thanks Phil,
I don’t know for sure if the RNZAF Baffins carried extra fuel tanks. I think that was their major problem – they didn’t. I do know they were phased out and replaced by Vincents and Vildebeests because they had double the range (fully loaded the latter types carried 276 gallons of fuel – 153 gallons in the two wing tanks and 123 gallons under the fuselage in the auxiliary tank). Another reason they were replaced was the Vincents/Vildes carried more bomb load and were faster.
By: STORMBIRD262 - 27th June 2005 at 05:11
Come on Pom’s, what bit survive’s
By: STORMBIRD262 - 26th June 2005 at 15:55
G’ Day Dave
I see Papa’s Done a bit as usual :rolleyes: , good one mate 😉 .
Dave here’s a bit I have 🙂 .
Blackburn Baffin
The Pegasus-engined version first flew in 1932 and, following test’s, was chosen for prodution, However, overall performance had been disapponting. For although the Rippon and Baffin were virtually identical except for their engine installation’s, the lighter and neater radial engine of the latter was confidently expected to allow a higher degree of improvement than was achieved.
The Baffin’s/Rippon’s served on the Carrier’s HMS Courageous, HMS Furious and HMS Glorious.(Furious the only surviver of WW2).
And Dave, I am pretty sure your N.Z. Ripon/Baffin’s, could carry a 120gal fuel tank, in place of their underfuselage Torpedo, when operated on long-range Recon mission’s.
Because before the Rippon’s were converted in to Baffin’s, with this tank, their range went from 380 to 1,060 mile’s.
So I’m guessing here that the Baffin/Rippon’s range went from 450 to 1,000+ aswell.
From what I have read here and there Dave,
They were well liked, but totally obsolete when used by the RNZAF in the Recon role, during the early year’s of WW2.( I would not have liked to have met a Zero 😮 , while in one.),
But they did have air bag’s inside of the fuselage, so atleast you could float around for a while, if you had to put down in the drink 😀 .
Hope the help’s a bit more Dave 😉 ,
I am unsure of what airframe’s survive in the world :confused: , but this forum is just the right place to ask, there must be a few bit’s still in the U.K :confused: .
By: Dave Homewood - 26th June 2005 at 10:53
Thanks Peter. So basically they were much the same except the engine then I guess. The Ripon doesn’t look quite right with the inline engine, the radial suits the airframe much better in my opinion.
Interestingly that Baffin, S1358, joined the RNZAF and became NZ164 with No. 2 (Wellington) Territorial Squadron, and in 1940 it was with the New Zealand General Reconnaissance Squadron at RNZAF Station Whenuapai. Like most Baffins it was broken up at RNZAF Rongotai in 1941.
By: Papa Lima - 26th June 2005 at 09:40
Blackburn Ripon and Baffin photos
Here they are . . .
(Same source, the Putnams book – invaluable!)
By: Papa Lima - 26th June 2005 at 09:33
From Putnam’s “British Naval Aircraft since 1912”
The Ripon succeeded the Dart as the FAA’s standard torpedo aircraft, first entering service with No.462 Flight in February 1929. . . . an observer had to be carried to do the navigation. . . . a multi-purpose aircraft . . . with spools for catapulting and could be used for long-range reconnaissance . . . 570 hp Napier Lion XIA . . . one fixed Vickers machine-gun forward and one free-mounted Lewis machine-gun aft . . . provision for bombs.
The Baffin succeeded the Ripon . . . Two prototypes (Ripon V) flew in 1932-33, one with a Tiger engine, the other with a Pegasus . . . 29 built, also 68 Ripons were converted into Baffins, retaining their original serial numbers . . . 812 Sqn received Baffins in January 1934 . . . only served a few years . . . 565 hp Pegasus I.M.3 (air-cooled radial) . . . similar armament to the Ripon.
Comparative photos coming up in my next post.
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June 26, 2005 at 7:30 am