Blackburn Skua – Found and now Lost?

Well it used to be the slowest place on the web at onetime “half the speed of a badly punctured slug” was an overstatement ! but it runs fine now so the server wouldn’t seem to be an issue.
Shame there is nothing planned but at least Mr Stillman didn’t rule it out, here’s hoping.

Regarding CWGC website searches

Thanks Mark, we must never assume but perhaps then Leo Aiston was part of the naval air section at Speke, it’s looking likely isn’t it. For goodness sake let me know if the mystery gets solved ! Its bugging me now too 😀
————————————-

Below is my e-mail and the reply from the CWGC webby, nothing in the pipeline but they are obviously aware that it would be a good idea. Fingers crossed.

Incidentally for those of you who use the CWGC website on a regular basis I found a serious spelling mistake on a name and have informed the CWGC webby. I therefore took the opportunity to suggest that an all word search facility would make the job of using the site for serious research that much easier.

—– Original Message —–
From: Phil Appleton
To: [email]webmaster@cwgc.org[/email]
Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2005 1:23 PM
Subject: A minor error and a polite enquiry

Dear Webmaster,
Whilst doing a search on another casualty I came across the following spelling error

http://www.cwgc.org/cwgcinternet/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=2482819

The search I was originally doing was for the identity of the passenger of a two seat aircraft involved in a fatal crash on 2nd Feb 1943. The enquiry was made on the forum pages of Flypast magazine

http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=38719

by a member of the Lancashire Aircraft Investigation Team, a well respected organisation in the field of aviation archaeology and were the group featured in the recent Channel 4 ‘Time Team’ dig on the recovery of two A26 Invader aircraft broadcast last month.
The mystery has bugged the members of this group for years. They knew the type of aircraft, the name of the pilot and the flight plan they should have undertaken but, the accident happened miles off course and the identity of the rear seat passenger was a complete unknown.

As I had plenty of time to kill yesterday I thought I would give it a shot but what did I have to go on ?
Well I knew the exact date and the probability that he was Navy as it was a Fleet Air Arm aircraft involved but (and this is in no way a complaint merely an observation) the limited fields available on your website’s search facility did not prevent the process being very long winded.
I could insert ‘Navy’ and the ‘year’ but to bring up the names you have to put at least two characters in the surname field aa ab ac ad etc etc and then scroll the results looking for the relevant date, very labour intensive, difficult on the eye and after a while easy to miss a ‘possible’.
As it turned out I discovered that as expected there were several thousand Navy casualties in 1943 but only 26 on the date in question and whilst I may well have found the person we are after, it took nearly seven hours of very intensive concentration and on screen time.

For relatives of the fallen your website can provide information which they can access quite quickly but then they know for example that great uncle George Reginald Watson was in the Air Force and he died in WW1.
For the more serious researcher be they amateur or professional the really useful information is often there but, with the fewer clues that they have to go on far harder to access.
Often they angle they use you site from is that all they may have is a regiment, squadron, a ship or as in my case a specific date.

During yesterdays trawl I noticed there were many casualties on 01/02/43 and discovered that most occurred when HMS Welshman was sunk off Tobruk but were also spread over the 2nd and 3rd of February and possibly beyond presumably as survivors succumbed to their injuries.
The loss of the Welshman with regard to the great scheme of things, whilst still a tragedy, could be described as a minor event as between just 30 to 40 souls were lost, subsequently there is precious little on the www about it.
If however I had been seriously looking into the sinking of the Welshman I could have been able to compile a casualty list from your database but……it would have taken ages.
For a researcher or someone like myself (an interested amateur who is just trying to solve a riddle) the information on your site is so valuable in piecing the jigsaw of the past together. It is highly useful as a research tool and the information within is rightly regarded as the definative record but, due to the limited searching facility sometimes very inaccessible.

On the flip side it could be argued that the minor mistake I have found regarding RNIGHT would not have come to light without me having to go about things in a longhand fashion.

Are there any plans afoot to introduce an ‘advanced search’ type of facility ? There are those who would find it a real advantage in gaining as much information as possible before beginning to delve into archives a County Hall or trekking off to the Public Records Office etc. particularly as so many are now looking into family history on the net.

Best regards to you and my compliments to all at the CWGC, your work is much appreciated.
Like so many I have used the website to bring home to my children the enormity of the sacrifice and they now know why it is so important to preserve the memory of the fallen. For this alone your work is so valuable for the future.

Phil Appleton.
Rowhedge.
Essex.
—————————————————–
Dear Phil,

Many thanks for bringing this error to our attention. The amendment will be processed when we next update the web site.

As regards you query relating to making more search fields available, we do not at this stage have any plans to do so. I am aware that researchers and enthusiasts like yourself would be delighted to have more detailed search facilities, however this will require careful planning to establish firstly what is required and secondly what is feasible. It may be that later this year we are able to invest some time addressing the situation, however this can only be considered upon completion of our internal database which we are redeveloping.

I am sorry I cannot offer a more positive response at this stage but please be aware that we do have an Enquiries section who are able to undertake more detailed traces or provide reports.

With kind regards.

Andy Stillman
Records and Enquiries Manager

776 Squadron

No 776 Squadron arived at Speke on the 27th March 1941 as a 2nd line unit carrying out Fleet Requirements duties, towing targets, radar calibration and communications flights for the Naval HQ in Liverpool. Many of its operations were carried out at Woodvale (target flights for HMS Queen Charlotte Gunnery School) and other local airfields. Speke never became a Naval Air Station but but was administred by the Naval Air Section of RAF Speke. No 776 finaly moved its HQ and remaining aircraft to Woodvale on 7th April 1945. after it was taken over by the Navy as HMS Ringtail II a satellite of Burscough

No problem Nick, I would hope that this is your man so “keep us posted” as the saying goes.
At least I can say I have earned my pint tonight. mmmmmm Bishops Finger on handpump 😀
cheers for now,

Phil.

Skua passenger

Thanks for all your searching – You obviously enjoy a challenge! – It is much appreciated – Certainly looks more than likely this is our man IMO & has you say probably only hitching a lift / ride – quite how they came to be over Bolton when it was supposed to be a ferry flight from Woodvale to Speke has also msytified me.

I will check with our group member who has been researching all the Speke incidents & see if he can throw more light on “HMS Speke”.

I have just undertaken a mammoth trawl through the CWGC website pages for all navy casualty surnames for 1943 and looking for the 02/02/1943 date and checking one day either side for possible candidates (been at it since 9.30 this morning, my eyes are now completely square).
By making copious notes and following up with a little googling I have established the following.

1st to 3rd of February 1943:
Only one casualty is shown fully as RNAS but Leading Airman Michael Beachcroft (19) whose parents came from Buckinghamshire is buried in Canada so we can presume he died whilst training abroad.

There are some casualties for HMS President III scattered across all theaters of the conflict. This is probably due to the fact that President III was a shore based unit that dealt with Navy and in particular Merchant Navy pay. These people probably lost their lives on different ships but have President III given as their unit/ship/base.

HMS Welshman was sunk by a U-boat off Tobruk on the first of the month with heavy loss of life, some casualties are listed on the 2nd.

LCT326 went missing with all hands off the Isle of Man on the day in question, assumed to be lost due to bad weather or striking a mine.

There were scattered casualties on various ships with the unfortunates shown as a few laid to rest in the UK, some in far flung corners of the globe but most being remembered on various naval memorials at Chatham, Portsmouth, Plymouth etc. indicating they were buried at sea.
Most these are shown as stokers/gunners/engineer artificers/mechanic/sick bay attendant etc so even those buried on home soil can probably be discounted on the grounds of their trade.

One however does stick out like a sore thumb purely on the grounds of where he is shown as being based.
Able Seaman Leo Matthew Aiston. C/JX223893. Died 02/02/1943 aged 21.
Son of Joseph and Pauline of Ryton. Buried Ryton Cemetary Durham section B grave 37. HMS Speke ? which as we all know became John Lennon airport.

I always thought that it was RAF Speke during wartime but I guess that it could have had a RNAS detachment onsite ( I am sure I am about to be told 😀 )
As the casualty has been so elusive perhaps Aiston was RNAS hitching an unauthorised lift home and came to grief.
Long shot I know but it’s all I came up with. Aiston’s still reside in Ryton if you care to take it further.
http://www.cwgc.org/cwgcinternet/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=2696266

Incidentally for those of you who use the CWGC website on a regular basis I found a serious spelling mistake on a name and have informed the CWGC webby. I therefore took the opportunity to suggest that an all word search facility would make the job of using the site for serious research that much easier.

75 MU

FAA Aircraft 1939-45 has S/L AJ Newton killed, but you have him as the pilot; no other crew mentioned.

Flood

Recovery carried out by 75 M.U. from Wilmslow – and a detailed account was recorded – Two crew definitely in the aircraft and the recovery of the bodies is also described – the gunner first as the fuselage was hauled out of the water tail first and then the pilot was found when serching the wreckage once it had been secured. The report also mentions the engine being abandoned as it was too deeply embedded in the mud and divers were unable to attach hawser.

As Newton is the only named crew member, I assumed him to be the pilot – he is commemorated at Liverpool (Anfield) Crematorium – Panel 2.

FAA Aircraft 1939-45 has S/L AJ Newton killed, but you have him as the pilot; no other crew mentioned.

Flood