Bleed air dangerous ?

Not just those, some later airbuses suffer from the smell of sewage in the cockpit, not such a thing as cannot happen…

IMO the apu was the main culprit on the 146. I have read elsewhere of problems on other types attributed to the engines though.
It seems to me that the design of jet engines is bound to lead to a level of oil contamination in the bleed air. This is not a new issue, the 707 and DC8 both used a separate compressor to provide cabin air in order to avoid this issue. The re-engined DC8’s however, used engine bleed air as the more modern CFM engines were considered to provide acceptably clean bleed air.

Cking is right the 146 was bad for this. On several occasions I started the apu to warm the cabin on a winters morning and by the time I turned to leave the cockpit the aircraft was full of oil smoke, the smoke cleared quite quickly but the fumes did not.

So does the problem come from the APU, or the Lycoming engines?

Steven

“Global Cabin Air Quality Executive” Seriously? What a joke.

The story says that the 787 can remove any possiblity of contaminated air. ANY possibiltiy? Really? How about flying through the toxic plume of the exhaust from a coal or nuclear power plant?

Surely burning batteries give off toxic fumes:dev2:

Cking is right the 146 was bad for this. On several occasions I started the apu to warm the cabin on a winters morning and by the time I turned to leave the cockpit the aircraft was full of oil smoke, the smoke cleared quite quickly but the fumes did not.

I have no idea…is the OBOGS system somewhat similar to these ?

OBOGS. On board oxygen generation system.
Nothing to do with the pressurization system on civilian aircraft.

This is very old news. The 146 had a serious problem with it, in fact I was nearly incapacitated TWICE on two different aircraft because of it. Speaking to the crews of both aircraft it was not an un common occurrence.
I will never fly on the 146 again.

Rgds Cking

How much oil is toxic? What if the engine is leaking oil into the system slowly, so that there is no abnormal servicing reflected in the aircraft logbook. Does the concentration, the exposure time, or both cause the condition? If the condition exists, who is responsible: the airline or the engine manufacturer or the airframe manufacturer? I imagine a greedy lawyer would probably sue all three. How about the regulatory authorities? Why did they certify an unsafe system?

I would say most, if not all oil has a degree of toxicity to it. Though (most, I would assume) airlines try their very best to ensure to oil fumes are not bled into the cabin.

It takes very, very little oil to enter into the bleed system before it is detected. True, oil servicing records may not show up the leak first, but it won’t be long before fumes are detected in the cabin.

Like the majority of aircraft defects, they manifest after the aircraft has been certified. So the certification tests may not reveal any faults. All three parties may be responsible. The airline may be over servicing oil wetted hardware or not properly cleaning areas where bleed air is drawn. The engine manufacture may have inadequate seals in their engines, leading to oil seeping into areas of the engine where bleed air is taken. Or, similarly, airframe hardware may have inadequate sealing. So a lawyer may find it hard to try and pin the blame on one party, over the life of the aircraft.

I have no idea…is the OBOGS system somewhat similar to these ?

“Global Cabin Air Quality Executive” Seriously? What a joke.

Dozens of things can cause odors in airliners, how can they prove the connection? How much oil is toxic? What if the engine is leaking oil into the system slowly, so that there is no abnormal servicing reflected in the aircraft logbook. Does the concentration, the exposure time, or both cause the condition? If the condition exists, who is responsible: the airline or the engine manufacturer or the airframe manufacturer? I imagine a greedy lawyer would probably sue all three. How about the regulatory authorities? Why did they certify an unsafe system?

The story says that the 787 can remove any possiblity of contaminated air. ANY possibiltiy? Really? How about flying through the toxic plume of the exhaust from a coal or nuclear power plant?

http://www.itv.com/news/meridian/story/2013-01-29/did-fumes-cause-pilots-deaths/

As long ago as 2000, a report to the Australian Senate documented oil leaks on the BAe 146 and outlined how 140 members of Ansett crew held medical certificates from doctors exempting them from flying the aircraft due to it getting into the bleed air.