Blind Landing Vulcan (old thread)

Get a wig, eat less and take regular exercise?.:)
Sorry, coudn’t resist it!
There used to be a small museum up in the Bedford area but I think they concentrated on the airfields USAF history. Perhaps they might be interested in your stories.
How long were you at the RAE there?

Rgds Cking (Fat and balding too!!)

The museum is still there. I passed it last week on the way to driving a Porsche at the Autodrome.

PS I felt quite ill by the end of the session! 😮

Vulcan at Thurleigh

i have just come across this site when researching some of my dad’s work history. His name was Ken Millard and sadly he died last September. Mum and I have been going through some of his memorabilia from his 30+ years at Thurleigh. He spent many years at BLEU and I believe he was on board when the first blind landing went into Heathrow. I would love to hear from anyone out there who might remember him. He finally retired in the 80’s as a chief engineer having worked on Concorde R&D as well as Harriers and many others.

Paddy, I hope that you don’t mind my posting this link to your story on pprune

I am sure many here will appreciate your memories too!

http://www.pprune.org/aviation-history-nostalgia/106739-night-london-airport-mine.html

Vulcan Blind Landing..Paddy Grogan

Following your article I have been chasing around trying to find you again.
The Vukan was XA899.
My Email address is [email]groganpaddy@yahoo.co.uk[/email] I would like to catch up with you to exchange notes. Ta Ta for now Paddy…Oh bye the way I’m not Irish I was born in London and I think my father was too.

Just to be pedantic it’s spelt ‘Pinkie’. I’m afraid that my copies of his logbooks only go up to 1950-odd. It seems that I never copied the second one which followed (although I think it was here for a while).

He flew this one as well I think – it came from him anyway..although I stand to be corrected.

Rae Thurliegh Vulcan memories

Welcome to the forum Paddy Grogan. Are you an Irish Celt like myself?
Pinky Stark was always the pilot when I flew with XA 899 and I also knew the flight engineer Greg Gregory. I remember working high up on the tailplane repairing a fault when Greg climbed up to see the view . Then we discovered he had a fear of heights and had to be helped back to the ground !

Hello CKing. To answer your query I worked at RAE Thurliegh from 1960 to 1967 on many projects . Blind landing, vertical take off (Short SC1) Concorde experimental aircraft HP 115 and even the famous Fairy delta 2.

Happy Days

Paddy R

Blind landing Varsity

It was an article by the late Neil Williams, who while at RAE Farnborough, flew a ‘talkdown’ approach into Bedford in a Hastings, below established minima, based on the fact that the Varsity was flying circuits.

It was only after he landed after eventually breaking cloud over the lights at 75 feet, that he saw the words ‘Blind Landing Experimental Unit’, on the side of the other aeroplane.

His article was called “Where Angels Fear to Tread”.

Brilliant thread this. Welcome to ‘Paddy’ Grogan , who I’m sure can supply many other similar tales ……please!!

Blind landing Varsity

Maybe someone here can help. A long time ago, whilst I was still in a blue suit, I can remember reading an article in Air Clues. Unfortunately, the grey matter is going south and I cannot remember the details accurately, hence the request for help.

As best as I can remember:

Crew flying to Boscome (?) in really grotty weather. You know the stuff. Low cloud, heavy rain, nil viz. Listening to Boscome. One aircraft in the circuit. Tower asking the circuit traffic about conditions. Circuit traffic replies describing near fantastic conditions. Crew trying to look out windscreen can’t believe what they are hearing. What fortunate luck. Crew continues to Boscome, still listening to happy circuit traffic. Crew are unable to appreciate the fantastic conditions as they are unable to see past the nose of their aircraft.

Crew eventually manage to land after the most dreadful approach conditions with no viz. Baffled crew curse the loonies in the circuit and watch it land, to be confronted by a Varsity emblazoned with ‘BLIND LANDING EXPEREMENTAL UNIT.

camlobe

Thank you, Paddy, my date was as stated in the book “Avro Vulcan” by Robert Jackson – which now has a pencilled correction in the margin! At least the month was probably right!

First Vulcan Auto Land

XA899 was apparently the first four-engined aircraft to make a fully automatic landing, on 22 December 1959 (3 months after I joined the RAF).

I have to correct you on your date. For the purpose of historical accuracy my first autoland on XA899 at Bedford was 8 December 1959. However I am sure that Sqdn Ldr Carlson, the C.O. would have beaten me to it a day or so earliear.
Paddy Grogan.

. In the pic I am the slim darkhaired guy at the ladder. 47 years on I’m lot heavier and all the dark hair has gone!
Has anyone out there got any clues?

Paddy R

Get a wig, eat less and take regular exercise?.:)
Sorry, coudn’t resist it!
There used to be a small museum up in the Bedford area but I think they concentrated on the airfields USAF history. Perhaps they might be interested in your stories.
How long were you at the RAE there?

Rgds Cking (Fat and balding too!!)

Varsity

I worked for Brooklands aviation at Chilbolton and one of the aircraft I worked on was the blind landing Varsity!Remember it as it had lots of odd equipment in it.I was an electrician recently out of the RAF!!

XA899 was apparently the first four-engined aircraft to make a fully automatic landing, on 22 December 1959 (3 months after I joined the RAF).

Welcome to the forum Grogan!

Paddy Grogan

I have fallen on this site by accident and I must say it is very interesting. However there does appear to be a lack of knowledge of some aspects so I think I may be able to help.
Firstly the BLEU Vulcan was a B1 XA 899.
My involvement began when I was posted to 230 OCU Waddington specifically to qualify on Vulcans for the purpose of carrying out the Blind landing tests.Also with me at that time was Sqdn Ldr Carlson ( a Canadian) who became the O.C. BLEU.
An old mate of mine( Alfie Camp) picked me up from Waddington in a Varsity (417) and ferried me to Bedford where he demonstrated an automatic landing, and very impressed I was.
I then met Pinky Stark and became great friends with him and his wife Joan. Sadly neither are now with us.The other pilots were, Bernard Sercombe and Flt Lt Bountiff Our Navigator was, Flt.Lt Rea, followed by Dennis Evans and the Air Electronics officer F.O. Gregory.
I took over from Alan Bountiff. At the head was John Charnley ( now Sir John)
My own Swan song was to carry out the fog landings at London Airport in December 1962 just before my retirement from the RAF. I now live in Brittany.
Should anyone wish to read my account of the LHR fog landings I will be happy to send a copy. Best wishes to you all Paddy

“ILS” Vulcan memories from John Farley

I have heard John Farley (ex Harrier test pilot etc) recount tales of flying the “ILS” trials Vulcan (amongst other types) while he was based with RAE at Thurleigh. He said a number of airline captains had trial flights on the Vulcan to see if the proposed ILS instrumentation/displays could be understood by civilian crews.

He said most of them had no great problem with interpreting the proposed instrumentation, but that some had more difficulty adjusting to the use of a fighter-type “stick” in place of the “control yokes” that they normally used on similarly sized aircraft.

As an aside he also said that on one flight they managed to land the Vulcan on the much shorter cross runway at Thurleigh, much to the consternation of the commercial pilot, who couldn’t believe the large Vulcan could be squeezed into such a short runway. JF says they managed to do so by virtue of a lightly loaded aeroplane, a high angle of attack approach, and then popping open the bomb-bay on short finals, which effectively acted as an airbrake and helped dump speed, whilst also adding to the ground cushion effect underneath the delta wing, thus resulting in a far slower touch down speed than the commercial pilot believed possible for something as large as a Vulcan.

Paul F

Thanks Jon for the info on XA 890. I can now bring my own records up to date.

Yes Deryck I remember Bob Westley at Thurliegh. I’m sure we shared a few trips around the airfield in the vulcan. The pilot was always Flt Lt “Pinky” Stark.
I’m sure Bob will remember him.

Paddy R

Blind Landing Vulcan.

A friend of mine, Bob Westley, was involved with the BLEU for many years. I checked his log books and he had something like 600 blind landings. He would go from the Vulcan to the Canberra on the same day.

He was not the pilot, he was the boffin.

He lives outside of Ottawa and still visits England regularly.

Also if it is XA890 then there is a picture of her being completed on the assembly line at Woodford on the bottom of page 56 in said book 😀

Looks like a Mk1 judging by the lack of paint on the nose wheel leg. So a quick glance in my handy Vulcan Story book means Vulcan B.Mk1 XA890 looks like the winner.

“Delivered 1955. Olympus 104 engines. A&AEE trials. RAE Farnborough and Thurleigh trials. Manufacturer trials. Radio and radar trials, blind landing trials and ballistic research. Withdrawn and scrapped at Bedford in 1971”

Nice pic by the way 🙂

Jon