Blue Steel Valiants

old lag ak

Biggin BoB Days, 1952 and 53, Korean War ongoing. US types on first public airing. All cameras (Brownie 127s) confiscated at gate.

Sculthorpe Armed Forces Day, May,1962. CND likely to picket, did so nearer London at Wethersfield. ak, prisoner-to-be, paused at Marham to gaze upon dispersed, white Valiants. His decrepit car was blocked by 2 MoD plod Land Rovers, ak and mate flung into cooler for 2 hours, incommunicado on straw mattresses, till local CID showed up. They had met my sort before, but camera and notebooks took awhile to come back.

Sovs did wish us harm and did work through evangels who thought they knew better than the rest of us: CND disrupted movement of Bombs from MU to Sqdn., and of GLCMs around Greenham Common, doing Sovs work for free. Quite right of the system to try to make life difficult for them all.

David you have done for Ground Aviation Photography what Charles E Brown did for Air to Air Photography, your photographs are very memorable and even more so due to your age.

As WV-903 said in a previous post for us to take photos was strictly taboo, cameras hidden in tool bags when the occasion arose was like running the gauntlet.

What I like about your photographic skills is that you were able to capture the occasion, the angle, the monsoon ditches, the chocks, fire extinguishers etc all make up the bigger picture.

Congratulations…………:p

Hear, hear John! If you are a civilian teenager you can get away with almost anything (and they still do!) but once you are in uniform, the RAF suddenly don’t understand why you should be interested in aircraft and view any attention to aircraft outside your job with suspicion. When I was in the RAF at Lyneham in the early ’70s, I had to be extremely careful taking photos.
A friend of mine got caught doing it and the RAF Police had a field day when they raided his room on camp and found spotters books and prints and slides on shelves and in cupboards…..he MUST be a spy! They confiscated the lot, but eventually it all died down and he got them back when they realised the truth of the matter. That was the Cold War years and also we had the IRA troubles. I returned to Lyneham in the mid-80s for my last tour and what a change in security! The Cold War had ended, the Berlin Wall had come down and the IRA had surrendered its weapons. The Security Officer was now issuing permits for aircraft photography! Phew, at last!!:rolleyes:

WV and any other “ranter”. Defence spend, rising during Korean War, 1951/52 to 10% of National Wealth, did its job. All of it, timely and effective (Canberra, V-Craft), and not (Javelin, Swift, Wyvern) collectively contributed to the demise of its Threat. Conscript 1950s, then professional, we won. Now, we need to be alert, ready for any fresh Threat, and some feel that Defence at 2% of Wealth should better be at 4%: both numbers are arbitrary. Others feel Air should have more, some less, than its current budget share: either position has + and – points. All UK politicians since 1949 (forming NATO) have chosen to put UK’s resources into Pool/coalition, because the expense of 100%-solo would create the very instability that Defence should counter. All our kit now is collaborative and/or bought in, not because UK-solo can’t do it, but because it makes no economic sense for UK to duplicate, say Sentinel, Predator, or to cause Typhoon-G to compete with Tyfun-D. Finance is the 4th. Arm, but too much is as bad as too little.

David you have done for Ground Aviation Photography what Charles E Brown did for Air to Air Photography, your photographs are very memorable and even more so due to your age.

As WV-903 said in a previous post for us to take photos was strictly taboo, cameras hidden in tool bags when the occasion arose was like running the gauntlet.

What I like about your photographic skills is that you were able to capture the occasion, the angle, the monsoon ditches, the chocks, fire extinguishers etc all make up the bigger picture.

Congratulations…………:p

Amazing photos again, David Many thanks for posting.

WV-903, to try and answer your question:

WP204 seems to have spent its time with V-A and Avro. On 1 Jun 62, it bacame 7753M at St Athan. The UK Serials site shows it as “perished 24/8/65 at No. 19 MU St Athan”.

WZ373 is shown as being used by Fairey, AAEE and then Avro before being sold for scrap 16 Sep 64.

WZ375 was allocated to AAEE, Avro and then RRE before being struck off charge on 22 Jul 66. Possibly scrapped at Pershore.

Maybe someone else will have more details.

The Blue-Steel Test Valiants–Ahhhhhhhh!!!!!!!

Dave,
Wonderful !!!! Thank you very much for putting these great pics. up. These sort of pics. I never dared take, as a serving RAF member who had to sign the Official secrets act, it was more than your job and life was worth, very severe penalties would follow if you were found having any records of any kind, including pics. And the Blue Steel and everything to do with it was top-very top secret. ( My pics. were “Official” taken by 4JSTU Photog, who I still talk to today. ) So If it wasn’t for you Dave who was a civillian enthusiast, youngster,living at Changi with Service parents and was in the best position to “Beat the system”, but for your dogged perserverance and know how to approach people, we would not be enjoying these pics.

Thanks again. Have to agree with you and “Anon” ,– as a youngster in the 1950’s, I was starstruck by these V-Bombers, and being in ATC then was really something, you could get trips in RAF Aircraft by just asking, .303 Lee-Enfield Rifles were kept in a locker at our ATC Sqdn. in a school in Kings Heath Birmingham for weapons practice and Rifle Drill. Try doing that in this enlightened day and age in Brum would see you consigned to Guantanamo Bay. ( I look nothing like Bin Laden anyway )

We were taught by EX RAF -WW2 Pilots, Navigators, Armourers, Riggers, men who really wanted to pass on their experiences and Know how and looking back ,I realise what a lucky young man I was. Compare that with todays ATC Sqdns. Most ex-RAF folk I know won’t go anywhere near ATC Units, ( Me included ) because of our repressive Legal rights, Health and Safety and other shallow self serving Laws, that mean you are always walking a tight rope in a social minefield. We covered all this sort of stuff in our Service times and coped very well. So the youngsters lose out and so does the UK. But I think this Government cares not one Jot and has plans to turn all Forces into one minute Self Defence Force anyway. ( But will still go picking fights with other countries ). So those now far off days in Singapore, Aussie, Cyprus, etc,etc, the likes of which we will not see again, really should be preserved wherever possible in all aspects we can think of, (which is what drove me to get my 2 Sea-Hawks ) so we can show any interested youngsters and parents what it was like.

It Makes me puke to think what has been done to our Aircraft Industry, as thousands of other people must have done when their jobs and the Industry was dismantled deliberately by Harold Wilson and co. We were at the very forefront all right and it was all thrown away. Just pick up some old copies of “Flight ” and look at what we produced and the jobs going during 1950’s / early 60’s.

Anyhow, I’m creeping off thread here, – My Rant over-.::eek: 😀

Does anyone out there know how, where, and exact dates these particular Valiants were scrapped ? I have an Ejection Seat I think is from a Valiant, have a look at Pics. folks and tell me, It certainly seems to be a Martin Baker Mk.3 with armrests.

The Valiant was the ‘short straw’ in the V-Bomber development wasn’t it. Produced as a very basic design that could be got into manufacture quickly, Thus ensuring that we had something to mount our big A-bombs in by 1952-53.
The other two were viewed as being ‘very adventurous’ at the time and therefore ‘risky’-a big delta wing jet and a crescent wing one.
I think the Victor remains ‘ultra modern’ looking, not only because of the wing but that fantastic futuristic nose. But then I still think the Vulcan is beautiful, but I really prefer it in ‘atomic white’!

The Valiant’s that came to and fro to Woomera were still thrilling to see but had, by the early 60’s been pushed aside by the other two. Perhaps the ‘all silver’ with no markings of any sort didn’t help the ‘self esteem’ either. The white V-Bombers had a great wow factor in those years.
DT

Have you read ‘Bombers of the West’ by Bill Gunston, Postfade? quite an old book now but contains an excellent comparison of the V-bombers….worth checking the Valiant B.2 which only flew as a prototype but was a solution to the low level flying later found necessary for the V-force

V Bombers

Just as a general point whilst we are on the subject of the V-Bombers:

Can you imagine the sight of the likes of the Victor, Vulcan and Valiant to young aviation enthusiasts in the 1950’s who were used to seeing Lancs, Lincolns, Spitfires and other piston-engined aircraft crossing the skies?

Britain really was at the forefront of aviation in those days and the futuristic looks of these machines (not to mention lots of other smaller jet fighters and propeller types such as the Hornet and Wyvern) must have been a real thrill.

Gestation periods for new designs were just a few years then, unlike today’s protracted, expensive and compromised designs which take 15-20 years to develop – and which are generally out of date and outclassed by the time they reach front-line service.

I know of many ex-Air Training Corps cadets from that time who pored over every detail and design of the aircraft. Even the ATC of today is a shadow of its former self: not allowed to have aircraft components any more (H&S again), hardly any airframes with ATC Squadrons, cadets knowing very little about aircraft in general.

The heyday for British Aviation is long over and seeing the pics people have posted on this Forum over the last few weeks reminds me that there were some absolutely fantastic designs which saw the light of day and the air under their wings.

Rant over, I’ll get me coat…..

Anon.

The Valiant was the ‘short straw’ in the V-Bomber development wasn’t it. Produced as a very basic design that could be got into manufacture quickly, Thus ensuring that we had something to mount our big A-bombs in by 1952-53.
The other two were viewed as being ‘very adventurous’ at the time and therefore ‘risky’-a big delta wing jet and a crescent wing one.
I think the Victor remains ‘ultra modern’ looking, not only because of the wing but that fantastic futuristic nose. But then I still think the Vulcan is beautiful, but I really prefer it in ‘atomic white’!

The Valiant’s that came to and fro to Woomera were still thrilling to see but had, by the early 60’s been pushed aside by the other two. Perhaps the ‘all silver’ with no markings of any sort didn’t help the ‘self esteem’ either. The white V-Bombers had a great wow factor in those years.
DT

i think its the same with many Ex Raf aircraft, though i do think the vulcan looks dated, the victor to me still looks very modern.

beautiful pictures, thanks for sharing 🙂

Beautiful photographs and being in black and white makes them more dramatic.

Something that struck me while looking at the first one is how “modern” they looked. For someone who did not know how old they were they would not look out of place today. It is only the fuel bowser that gives the age away (well that and the uniforms).