Bmi Suspend Airbus A321 Flights Due To Tech Prob

There are many occasions where I follow posts on these forums and see comments that are somewhat sketchy with regard to their accuracy and it would be very easy to come on here and be nothing but critical…but we have to remember that this forum was established with enthusiasts in mind to discuss whatever they wish rather than be eternally corrected because of not having an ATPL grade education.

Someone (it matters not who) made a questioning comment re something they noticed which seemed consistent with EZY operations into EDI so I offered points in a style aimed for discussion rather than dictatored fact. I could have pulled out the EZY ops manual straight away but that wasn’t what I was aiming to achieve. I was trying to show why there may be a difference compared to other airlines/types. When you pushed the issue I thought I’d quote the type that EZY are most likely to use in the scenario in question. The question asked was why EZY seem to miss the first exit, it didn’t just ask about the airlines only flying ‘apples’ or only flying ‘pears’ so I have given a selection of reasons why an EZY 737 apple might turn off at a different point to a BA 757 pear. Now my outfit have got some right 757 bananas…

Regards
wys

bmi have obtained special dispensation from the CAA for A321 routes to BHD from LHR and as of yesterday Bmi are allowed to operate A321’s on the route with the following requirments:

A Senior Captain is to be on each flight on the jumpseat as well as a Senior Captain in the Captains seat and if possible a Captain on the First Officer side but First Officers are allowed.

All landings are to be manual from at least 8nm from the threshold

All takeoffs are to be manual until 2000ft

And if the condictions dictate a auto land it is to go to EGAA.

wysiwyg

No flame directed at yourself re. the 321 comments, that was another poster on the thread.

However, you can’t compare apples and pears, the 737NG i have no experience of, different wing. Landing speeds we are only talking about a few knots either way, and as they are different aircraft with different inertia/momentum, the comparison is somewhat daft.

The 737-300 autobrake system is better in my own experience than the Airbus FBW, many more selections, low,2,3 and Max. Airbus FBW just having Low and MED, MAX is only for RTO’s. This is why the 340-500/600 have been updated with more selections.
True the 737-300 do have old fashioned brakes, but they are good, Airbus FBW having carbon brakes.

I rarely post on PPrune so don’t know what your on about. However, some there is some class uninformed comment sometimes on threads, this one having some gems.

Cheers,

Spotty M Driver.

OK Spotty M, I did try to say ‘don’t know for sure’ but let me quote from the EZY 737-700 operations manual which I happen to have a set of. Max landing mass is 58,059kg whereas almost all 757’s are 90,000kg. That IS just about 2/3 of the mass for half the braked wheels and we’re only even talking about a mid-sized 737 here! Comparing the 757-200 QRH to the 737-700 QRH for max landing weight Vref the 737 comes out a 3kt faster at flap 30 and 1kt faster at flap 40. These figures are not perhaps as fast as I thought but they still show my comment to be correct and again we’re only talking about a mid sized 737 here! I did imply it was weight dependent by saying per unit of weight. On the subject of brakes, I never said it wasn’t a good system I just said it was an older design compared to more modern types. I see you agree with me about turnaround times and brake cooling so I don’t know why you raise that again. Finally I didn’t mention anything about A321 take off distance so perhaps you could direct that comment elsewhere.

One of the great things about this forum is that it isn’t PPRuNe so perhaps we can leave the PPRuNe style over there. Those of us who have emigrated over here are here because of better etiquette.

Regards
wysiwyg

wysiwyg

I’ve seen uninformed threads in my time, but this takes the biscuit 😮

1) The 737 is about half the weight of a 757, so therefore requires less wheels/brakes.

2) Vref is virtually the same as a 757, plus is of course weight dependant.

3) The braking system on the -300 which i have 2,500 hours on is a very good system. EDI landings would only require setting 2 to make the turn-off on either runway. You still have two higher settings, which trust me will stop you on a sixpence.

4)Brake cooling though is a factor on short turnarounds.

Also the comment about the take-off distance on the 321 was a laugh, as i currently have 4,500 hours on the 320/1 mostly in command, got me concerned about operating ex LTN, jeez its only just over 2,000m…

Spotty M Driver.

Originally posted by Matthew Murray
The only problem is the EasyJet guys trying to make the first turnoff. Everyone else makes it off the runway nicely except those guys, must come in real fast and high.

Don’t know for sure as I don’t do 737’s but –
1) Compared to a 757 they land at more than half our typical weight but with only half the number of braked wheels
2) They have a relatively high Vref meaning that they have more energy to dissipate (per unit of weight) compared to other aircraft
3) Their braking systems are relatively old technology
4) Perhaps their quick turnarounds restrict the amount of brake they use to try to keep the brakes cool enough to depart quickly

When I’ve flown into EDI the aircraft have always tried to make the first turnoff. ATC apparently get flustered at aircraft who overshoot and have to backtrack.

Whoops…sorry meant Brake there 😛

I hope you don’t really mean “break” – we spend a lot of time and effort to avoid breaking aeroplanes!

I was up at Belfast City a few weeks back and watching A321 land on 22 is quite an interesting experience. I’ve never seen an aircraft brake so hard, it’s worse than Edinburgh. I was convinced that at least two of the seven daily flights were going to overshoot the runway.

Oh rite! Its me! Andrew Magee. Em what was that link that you gave me and it was like a popup for news and you could set it to aviation?

Since i live in Belfast (im Andrew McQuillan remember)

Oh its complicated cause Lisburn is a city now but I live on the outskirts. How do you know so much about Northern Ireland Geography.

High load factors make the A321 the only choice.

Belfast City’s runway is 1829M’s long. The A321’s Tke of run is 2,345M which means it has to lift of at the maximum 516 m’s early. When it takes of it must apply more thrust and flap.
The landing field length for the A321 is 1,587M giving a mere 242m to play with!!!!!

They are going to put them on charter routes aparently because there is A320’s they can use on the Summer Charter routes currently!

Btw your location says Lisburn which is a wee bit away like.

Well I live in Belfast and funny enough I saw no BDA321’s today they were all A320’S. I think they would operate the A321’S to places like Amsterdam, Brussels. Colonge, Copenhagen, Frankfurt, Hamburg, Hanover etc, but al of those places operate into Main airports therefore large runways so it may just be to BHD.