bmi to axe LHR-LBA and LHR-MME

Does look as if bmi R has a future, given that it’s taking over the ABZ-BHX route (from Baby) + ABZ-LHR (from Mainline).

Thought I read bmi R was due more Embraers from withdrawn Flybe stock, or are the reduction of routes elsewhere ensuring the existing fleet is sufficient?

In fact Lufthansa who I beleive are taking over BMI now would probably welcome cuts from the UK regions to LHR, as it would push more passengers via Frankfurt.

LH did increase the number of pax they flew out of MAN last year; it’s now nearly 570,000 with a growing number transferring to destinations like Hong Kong, Beijing and Mumbai. They have said that they are monitoring the situation and may look to add more services to the BD set up, both at MAN as well as LHR in due course. This, of course, does imply that bmi regional doesn’t appear to be on course for a sale as why add routes if you won’t be able to feed them?

Huh? AMS have five runways (one built in recent times) to serve less traffic than LHR handles. LHR has two runways, and is slot constrained to the point where bmi (and/or Lufthansa) feels it can make more money using those slotes to serve other routes than it can serving LBA or MME. Maybe bmi would, if slots were not an issue, like to keep the routes, but unfortunately good business practice and UK aviation policy rather put an end to that opportunity. In any case, revenues have undoubtedly been diluted on these routes since the “glory” days (110 pax on a DC-9-30 and a full hot meal and drinks served on these routes – anyone else remember that?) as the trains have got better – MAN-LHR is also massively down for the same reason and it would not surprise me to see it’s link to London go the same way in the more distant future. To be honest, I have little sympathy for those moaning about the loss of the route – its just repeating what happened to EMA-LHR and BHX-LHR in the past, and as I said I would not be surprised to see it happen to MAN-LHR (or at least further significant reductions in frequency) in the future.

In any case, people SHOULD use the train – its less hassle, its more environmentally friendly, and if in the long run we can get rid of these short domestic services aviation can be seen to be doing something to counter the climate change lobby.

Andy

I do remember the days of BD DC9s to LHR and full service on-board to boot, and I think your right MAN-LHR may very well go the same way, at least BD going anyway (Does British “Midland” mean anything now !!?) probably not BA. In fact Lufthansa who I beleive are taking over BMI now would probably welcome cuts from the UK regions to LHR, as it would push more passengers via Frankfurt.

The train is great if you are going city centre to city centre, but forget it if you want to go to LHR, or LGW for that matter for a long-haul connection. Passenger from the regions will just use European hubs like Amsterdam more and more because it’s basicly much less hassle. The fact that LHR is slot constrained and short of runways high lights the short-sightedness of previous UK governments not thinking “big” as France and The Netherlands did with CDG and AMS a long time ago. Borris Johnson recently spoke about shutting LHR and creating a new airport out in the Thames estuary, all old news this was an idea years back for Maplin Sands.

as I said I would not be surprised to see it happen to MAN-LHR (or at least further significant reductions in frequency) in the future.

I wonder if the only reason why there wasn’t some kind of pruning of the route was the competition between BA and BD on the run? With BD having a “slot holder” service operating on at least one of the frequencies, you would have thought that would have been a prime candidate to be used for a “better” route.

Its strange how KLM seem to value UK regional links where as BD/BMI do not. In the end money leaves the country and is spent in Holland, the UK and LHR looses out.

Huh? AMS have five runways (one built in recent times) to serve less traffic than LHR handles. LHR has two runways, and is slot constrained to the point where bmi (and/or Lufthansa) feels it can make more money using those slotes to serve other routes than it can serving LBA or MME. Maybe bmi would, if slots were not an issue, like to keep the routes, but unfortunately good business practice and UK aviation policy rather put an end to that opportunity. In any case, revenues have undoubtedly been diluted on these routes since the “glory” days (110 pax on a DC-9-30 and a full hot meal and drinks served on these routes – anyone else remember that?) as the trains have got better – MAN-LHR is also massively down for the same reason and it would not surprise me to see it’s link to London go the same way in the more distant future. To be honest, I have little sympathy for those moaning about the loss of the route – its just repeating what happened to EMA-LHR and BHX-LHR in the past, and as I said I would not be surprised to see it happen to MAN-LHR (or at least further significant reductions in frequency) in the future.

In any case, people SHOULD use the train – its less hassle, its more environmentally friendly, and if in the long run we can get rid of these short domestic services aviation can be seen to be doing something to counter the climate change lobby.

Andy

Interestingly there was an article in the Skyport newspaper (the freebie newspaper for airport staff and local residents!), which said that KL have announced that there has been quite a bit of interest in the LPL-AMS route, with a strong no. of advance bookings before its start date on 29th March!:)

Its strange how KLM seem to value UK regional links where as BD/BMI do not. In the end money leaves the country and is spent in Holland, the UK and LHR looses out. Plus no rail connections to LHR except London

Rikt……….

Why despise the trains?? Sounds as though they are doing a good job for you.

For an overland journey of 250 miles or less the train has to win on all counts……..

Planemike

Planemike,

its not really a problem with the train itself, its more the fact i tend to be on everyone which they decide to cancel and dont reallocate your reversed seat…. so you end up standing… (the other week i stood from Kings Cross to Leeds,,,, im sure the train was overloaded with PAX.. you just could not move!!)

In regards to the 250 miles or less…. I also use the LBA to EDI or MAN to EDI.. that route on the plane is a lot better than the train time wise..(The seneic view on the train as you get closer the boarder is rather nice though!!

If im going anywhere but the capital now i will tend to drive..

Its a shame this route has been axed from a staff point of view etc… but there is always MAN i guess from a PAX point of view….

Rick

Plus KL are due to launch next month LPL-AMS

Interestingly there was an article in the Skyport newspaper (the freebie newspaper for airport staff and local residents!), which said that KL have announced that there has been quite a bit of interest in the LPL-AMS route, with a strong no. of advance bookings before its start date on 29th March!:)

Wondering if Flybe would consider MME-LGW. Considering the proximity of NCL-LGW, it may not work. But then again KL operate NCL/MME/LBA/HUY to AMS and fill many planes a day.

I guess there’s also a possibility of Ryanair from MME-STN or LTN

Plus KL are due to launch next month LPL-AMS, I think BD have not been interested in domestic UK links for years, they used to offer BHX, EMA and LPL to LHR all cut.

Rikt……….

Why despise the trains?? Sounds as though they are doing a good job for you.

For an overland journey of 250 miles or less the train has to win on all counts……..

Planemike

Nothing different to what Iberia makes in Spain………axe, axe, axe….hub, hub, hub. 😡 I do understand your upset.

When are these cuts taking effect, as I’ve got two flights from LHR-LBA. One in a few days and another in April

As per the BMI website.. — Not good News for your April Flight…..

Please note our service from Leeds Bradford to London Heathrow will cease from 28 March 2009.

http://www.flybmi.com/bmi/en-gb/index.aspx.
(just do a quick search for any date in March on the route and you get the above message.)

Rick

When are these cuts taking effect, as I’ve got two flights from LHR-LBA. One in a few days and another in April

Just one thing to add, my local is LBA, but i have found myself using the train from Leeds to London Kings Cross recently due to cost cut backs if you get the right fare etc..

The train only take’s just over 2 hours into Kings Cross, which is not much longer than the overall flight time from arriving at the airport to reaching centre of London…. (plus taking into account my time of getting to LBA plus parking for the day @ £25.00)

Yes.. i perfer to be higher than 5 feet off the ground as i despise the trains!!

Rick

As a member of bmi’s Diamond Club, I get e-mails with news and updates on a regular basis about the changes to schedules and routes that the airline is operating, this is what my latest e-mail that I recieved just today had to say:

We’re making changes to our summer 2009 flying:

Increasing our Heathrow-Beirut and Amman services to ten per week from 22 May 2009

Reducing our Heathrow-Addis Ababa service to three per week, now being served over Amman, instead of Damascus from 29 March 2009

Decreasing the frequency of our Heathrow-Amsterdam service to four per day and Heathrow-Dublin to six per day from 29 March 2009

Operating our Heathrow-Aberdeen service on all Embraer aircraft from 29 March 2009 and Heathrow-Brussels on all Embraer aircraft from 18 April 2009

Closing our Heathrow-Leeds Bradford and Durham Tees Valley services on 28 March 2009/

The decision to withdraw services between London and the North of England was a tough one, as we’ve operated these routes since 1969. However a decline in demand, higher-than-inflation cost increases at Heathrow and higher Government Air Passenger Duty (APD) charges have made operating these routes unsustainable.

We apologise for any inconvenience caused.

Taken from the LBA website…

“John Parkin continues “Today’s announcement by bmi mainline does not affect the bmi regional base at Leeds Bradford which currently offers 46 flights a week to Brussels, Glasgow and Edinburgh. Plans to expand bmi regional with new routes from LBIA are well advanced and continuing.” “

Just hanging onto the last sentence there!

The same press release also says:

”We are well aware of the importance to our region of regular air links to London and we expect to be in a position to announce new services to the capital shortly.”

So hopefully we will get something new!

Jet22 – Don’t think BE would start CDG, GVA, JER, DUS (All current Jet2 routes) or MXP (Jet2 into BGY).

I wouldn’t mind seeing Flybe now expand at LBA. A possible link to LGW is a good start, but as someone pointed out who really wants to fly to LGW, especially when it is a good 40 minutes out of London, but you never know BE could make this route successful.

Arguably the journey into London can take just as long from LHR. Gatwick Express takes only 30 minutes to Victoria station.

I agree that LHR is more useful for the connecting passenger, however. Trouble is the slots, or probable lack of. The facts are that there’s more money in long-haul operations than a little trip to LBA.

GVA, MXP, JER, CDG, DUS, FRA are all good destinations for BE to start from LBA.

Bold ones are easyJet bases…..

BE on LBA-JER could work too, but the German ones would do better with somebody like Germanwings, or even Lufthansa!:p

I think it is down to several reasons. Firstly the LF are good, but i don’t think BD are happy enough for the service to continue.

Secondly, i think the recession is a time for some business to re-structure, such as Industry and Aviation. While dropping LBA will be a big blow to staff the region and leeds, LH have better things planned for these slots and if they can make a bigger profit out of them, LH will.

Thirdly, i think LH is trying its hardest to get as much slots out of BD as it can, and i think it wont be long before LH are totally re-structuring all of BD’S domestic network. That way LH get there fair share of the LHR market, with both more short haul flights to MXP and Germany but also USA, which may be on the horizon.

To be Honest, i think LH/BD can make LHR-LBA flights work for several reasons. BD is well connected to its Star Alliance Network at LHR so that means that there is a chance to connect LBA with the Star Alliance Network. What BD could do is do a morning, afternoon and evening flight with a 320 or 319 see if that works.

MME doesn’t surprise me, i think MME isn’t a blow to the network at all. MME was effectively a Slot taker for BD. They wanted the open skies, so kept the slots for the flights to USA but have since but all there eggs into the Middle Eastern Network.

I wouldn’t mind seeing Flybe now expand at LBA. A possible link to LGW is a good start, but as someone pointed out who really wants to fly to LGW, especially when it is a good 40 minutes out of London, but you never know BE could make this route successful. I wouldn’t mind seeing BE open a base here. CPH was dropped by BD, that is another route that BE could make a success. GVA, MXP, JER, CDG, DUS, FRA are all good destinations for BE to start from LBA.

This is bad news indeed (though forecast on various forums after the ‘open skies’ agreement was reached).

It’s one thing hoping that BE would fill in with Gatwick, but Gatwick isn’t Heathrow (well obviously:rolleyes:) It isn’t really even London. I have used the BD service from/to LBA on many occasions, usually to connect with a LHR flight and whilst I dislike transiting LHR as much as anyone, it’s a case of ‘needs must’. A connection via Gatwick would mean it’s probably easier to use the train from the word ‘go’ (I did once use the B.Cal helicopter transfer:D but that was dropped decades ago) I’ll probably think further afield for the long haul flights and go from MAN. On my last 4 long hauls I have asked for costings/timings from KLM and whilst the cost was just OK the timings ( and also eventual destinations for further connection ) were useless. I have also personal (and friend’s) experiences of unreliabilty from KLM. That just sticks in the corner of your mind when planning big trips.

I have happy memories of sitting at the bmi gates at LHR in comfy seats, a quiet atmosphere, a nice coffee shop and views over the runways. Compared with the overcrowded cattle shed that BA calls the shuttle gates – and thereby maybe hangs the reason – quiet gates = low income.

Ah well off to Australia for Avalon (and a bit of exploring too) in a couple of weeks flying from MAN with Singapore – but even they’re shrinking that service and rumoured to be chopping it later in the year. What’s the world coming to? 🙁

Regards

Brian