Boeing vs. Airbus

No probs mate, thats what I like about this forum, we all learn something new.;)

Thanks mate, grateful for that information.

Originally posted by Florida Dude
This whole debate and others of similar content is biased, were only talking about what we want and want the pilot might want. We should remember that too an airline, customer satisfaction is what makes a key factor in decisions, people say and have pointed out in surveys that Airbus’s have better comfort levels, they also have better economics and are better for pilots because of the whole same flight deck.

Just think, that to an airline what is more important, customer satisfaction and lower costs or better handling/looking??

:confused:

This is not a defense to Boeing or a slagging off of Airbus, just facts.

I know what you are trying to say, but, when you work in and around an airline you tend to hear and see different things regarding the aircraft. As you state about pax comfort being an important part, True, but a lot of our pax much prefer the Boeing product because of the faster cruising speed therefore a shorter flight time which means not being couped up for longer than required. Example. I did a flight into London on Saturday and our flight plan flight time was 12.11 mins, where as the A340 which went just before us was 12.43 mins. A big difference. As for pilots, well the debate could go on and on and we are biased towards our machines. All I can say is there are not many Boeing pilots who want to fly an Airbus but I know of many Airbus pilots who want to fly a Boeing.

During the summer months the 747 has to take over the South Africa route from the A340 as it does not have the power to operate from a 5000 feet airfield in hot weather.

Airbus has a habit of not being able to meet is own quoted figures of a lot of their aircraft. This has happened here with the A340-600.

Airbuses are under powered and are very critical on there cruising levels, this can lead to them blocking levels for a very long time. As wysi says about the 146, it’s a flying road block.

Again, I am sitting on the fence but these are the facts. And for what it’s worth there are some airbuses I like. The A340 and 330 for example. I thought I would share with you some info that you might not know about operating certain types of aircraft.;)

This whole debate and others of similer content is biased, were only talking about what we want and want the pilot might want. We should remember that too an airline, customer satisfaction is what makes a key factor in decisions, people say and have pointed out in survays that Airbus’s have better comfort levels, they also have better economics and are better for pilots because of the whole same flight deck.

Just think, that to an airline what is more important, customer satisfaction and lower costs or better handling/looking??

:confused:

You are righty (interflug), I agree with ya. Airline industry is incomplete without both Airbus and Boeing.:(

Like most of us on here I’m an airliner “nut” and again like most of us on this forum I believe that this industry needs both AI and Boeing. There would not be AI as we know it today without the decades of pioneering work by the Boeing Co, and the need that it generated for European aerospace companies to compete with it. The Boeing products are legend, my personal favourite Boeing is the B707-320 Series and who could logically argue about the momentous contribution to the world of aviation made by the 747? But as we all know times move on, and Boeing must do the same. I’m not anti Boeing but I do admire all aspects of the Airbus concept, most of all the international co-operation and the beautiful and very capable aircraft that have resulted in such a relatively short time. The industry would be all the poorer without either so lets hope they all stay around a bit longer…..Still prefer my Ilyushins though!

Oh well,
I would like to go for both, they both are AWESOME!!!:D

Definition of a pilot = Proffesional Complainer

I read that somewhere once

Being a strong Boeing fan (the 757 particularly) I would normaly just make inflamitory statement like Boing rocks, airbus sux.
But!…. as Wys states…..” whatever”

I say; as long as its gets you there and back safe, its a good plane. IF it get you there and back in comfort, even better.

I’m not anti-Airbus at all. Unlike many pilots I’m realistic enough to know that the future lies with the accountants decision making and all the whinging in the world won’t change that, no matter how much better I believe the flying qualities of Boeing’s are. I’ll fly whatever puts food on my table and a roof over my head. Doesn’t mean I won’t bitch about it though! I’m required to, I’m a pilot, it’s what we do!

When SkyCruiser joined Cathay I suggested he joined the A340 fleet as I believe it will serve him better in the long term, however he has always lusted after Jumbos so he chose the 747. The reality is that with a company like Cathay any fleet is an excellent fleet.

Wysiwyg hits the nail right on the head !!!! Airbus is the accouants aeroplane and they are the people who run the airlines.

I dont know why we need to compare these two!

oh well Boeing all the way anyway!:D

Well, I could have been an Airbus pilot. I was given the choice of the A340 or the B747-400. But the Boeing got my vote any day.

Sc:D

Well , do we have any Airbus pilot on this forum?

Wys and skycruiser are real Boeing fans, it’s normal and we can’t blame them.

I’d be interested to have some airbus pilot point of view…

Although I am not a pilot I did spend 20 yrs in the Traffic/Ops Load Control sector which obviously involved working closely with flight deck crew and I can only base my opinions on my own experiences during that time vis-a-vis this topic. Sadly as pointed out by some the airline industry is a bean counters paradise and therefore based on that premise even more reason I would think for Boeing to re think its strategy, as I don’t see the reign of the bean counter ending anytime soon. The days of the “Pilots Aeroplane” may sadly be behind us…….It would be grand to be proved wrong on that!

I agree. Damn Airbus 😀 ! Boeing aircraft are great, and although the I love the A300 and A340 from the outside, I hate the flight decks more than any other aircraft (ok, the A319/320/321 has the worst). If the A300 wasnt fly-by-wire I think it would be much better for pilots, but then I only fly piper warriors not commercial airliners so I cant really judge.

not long before airbus takes over boeing in delivery numbers.

personally i dislike the airbus products.

Boeing to be overtaken by Airbus
It may take many years to regain top spot

(PARIS) Boeing Co, which by the end of 2003 will be overtaken by Airbus SAS as the world’s No 1 planemaker for the first time, may take years to regain the top slot as the European company accelerates its lead in orders and deliveries.

Boeing will introduce its first new plane in 2008 at the earliest, should the Chicago-based company decide later this year to build the Dreamliner, a twin-engine aircraft with at least 200 seats. Airbus has introduced new versions of two planes in the past two years. Its 555-seat A380 will fly in 2006 and has won commitments from 11 customers for 129 planes, Airbus said.

Airbus, based in Toulouse, France, has said it will deliver 300 planes this year and may deliver as many as 315, according to internal plans, compared with 280 for Boeing. It has won new contracts for 238 aircraft versus 157 for Boeing. The US planemaker has proposed a half-dozen new planes since 1990, abandoning all because of a lack of demand.

‘Airbus’ fleet of planes is newer and more up-to-date,’ said Alan Beaney of Sevenoaks-based Principal Investment Management Ltd. A new plane from Boeing would add ‘a bit of competition’, he said.

The Dreamliner, also known as the 7E7, would have a range of 7,600 miles. It is designed to replace ageing Boeing 757s and 767s and compete against Airbus’ twin-engine A330 series. It would be the first new Boeing jet on offer since the 777 in 1990.

‘We are getting good reaction from the airline industry,’ said Boeing chief financial officer Mike Sears at a briefing in London recently. ‘We expect by the end of this year to have board approval to offer the airplane.’

If the Boeing board gives the go-ahead, the planemaker will try to get commitments to buy the plane from airlines early next year, then line up engine and parts manufacturers to invest in the project and share the risk. Boeing has not said how much the project will cost or what it will charge for the planes. It has said new technologies will cut development and production expense. The Dreamliner is expected to use 15 to 20 per cent less fuel than current models.

Paul Nisbet, an analyst at JSA Research, figures the total development costs for Dreamliner at US$6 billion to US$8 billion. He said he expects Boeing itself to shoulder 50 to 60 per cent of the total and get the balance from risk-sharing partners. Mr Nisbet expects Boeing to launch the plane and predicts Boeing shares will rise ‘into the 40s’ once that happens. Shares traded recently around US$35.

‘We have expressed an interest in the 7E7, but we’re equally interested in the Airbus mid-range aircraft,’ said Karen Franklin, a spokeswoman for British Airways plc. Talks with Boeing and Airbus are in ‘very initial stages’, she said.

John Leahy, Airbus’ chief salesman, said he doesn’t expect to see the 7E7 launch by year-end and that the plane would be no better than an existing Airbus product, the A330-200.

‘I do believe that Boeing needs to do something to update the 767-300 and -400,’ Mr Leahy said. ‘We’ve got about 85 per cent of the market now compared to an airplane that used to dominate the market, but using today’s technology, what Boeing will build will be an airplane that may be better than the 767, but that will be very similar to the A330-200.’ – Bloomberg

Yeah i noticed from the latest Airliner World Mag, OCT 2003 Airbus only delievered 15 to Boeings like 22 i think!!!

Boeing make aeroplanes for pilots, Airbus make aeroplanes for accountants. In years gone by fleet choices were made by pilots, these days that decision is made by accountants. Regrettably, Boeing have to change their philosophy in order to survive.

Originally posted by Interflug62M
I have to disagree Steve, based on what pilot friends tell me Airbus products in most areas are superior to the Boeing ones.

I disagree with those words. My airline operates both Airbus and Boeings and the Boeings are a better machine in most cases. They out perform Airbuses easily and are a more reliable product.

When we took delevery of the new A340-600, the figuers quoted from Airbus regarding max TOW were 10 tonnes out therefore we couldn’t use it for our intended reason for getting them.

Airbus is a cheaper airplane to operate in terms of seat miles flown, this is why they are becoming more popular not because they are a better machine…It’s a bean counters idea of an airplane.

BOEING rocks.:D

I have to disagree Steve, based on what pilot friends tell me Airbus products in most areas are superior to the Boeing ones. On scrutinising most airlines reasons for selecting the Airbus over Boeing its usually the technical and performance details that seem to dictate the choice. Take the selection recently by the Bhutan carrier Druk Air, until now a 146 operator, who stated that for the restricted nature of their capitals airport the A320 sports a far greater technical and performance/payload capability than the 737. And just wait until the A380 gets here! As for the “great deals” that you mention, I’m fairly sure that Boeing do some of those too………Ryanair for example.
Boeing may well be about to do the “Airbus thing” and begin designing a whole new and technologically fresh range of designs just as AI did all those years ago. You can only go on stretching and tweeking 60s designs for so long and I think that the current new orders and delivery tables show Boeing that for a whole swathe of their range the writings on the wall!