Boeing's response to A380

Fair point .

Do you know anything about the 7E7 or the A380? How can you call them competitiors! You say Boeing should only concentrate on one project at a time, as Sandy says, I think they have the resources to concentrate on more than one, and if they cant they wont.

Off course the 7E7 and A380 are competitors. Sure, they are very different products with different abilities. But they are both aircraft!

An airline probably won’t buy both 7E7’s and A380’s. The capital cost is just too high for most carriers. But it is possible the same carrier would decide to (say) opt for the 7E7 to replace their 757/767 fleet and persevere with their 744s. Conversely, they could persevere with the 757/767 fleet if it’s new enough and replace their 747s with the A380.

They are competitors. They compete for the same dollar of airline capital expenditure.

Good news for everyone then.

So long as an aircraft manufacturer can achieve a net profit from any given project there’s no reason why it shouldn’t go ahead. A 747adv would be considerably cheaper than developing a whole new a/c so even at 100-150 orders it’d make sense for Boeing to go ahead.

It’d also be nice to see that such models as the A340-600, 747Avd. and a380 can actually coexist instead of destroying one another. That should be the case anyway, each aircraft covering a slightly different sector of the market.

Yes, an accurate abservation.

Boeing has no direct competitor to the A380. And the Vice CEO stated in a new conference, that Boeing will not develop an A380 sized aircraft, Boeing does not see a big enough market for such a plane.

I believe Boeing expects to target a small niche market with the 747-Advanced…(i.e. airlines who feel the A380 is too much vs the 747-400 which is not enough)…with a seating capacity of approx 450.

The forecasted market for such a wide-body is only 100-150 aircraft according to Boeing.

Mmmm…….Interesting times.

Yes, an accurate abservation.

Boeing has no direct competitor to the A380. And the Vice CEO stated in a new conference, that Boeing will not develop an A380 sized aircraft, Boeing does not see a big enough market for such a plane.

Love that SIA job Sandy. As things stand today would’nt it be entirely correct to say that Boeing has no DIRECT competitor to the A380? Purely an observation, I’m quite ready to be corrected here.

Well i jumped to conclusions again trying to say Airbus is better than Boeing. But when you get to details it doesnt matter. You are right….If they can do more than 1 project at a time then why cant they.?

Well Boeing all ready are launching an aircraft to go in competition with the A380 (not directly) so they really should concentrate on that to begin with……….7E7

Do you know anything about the 7E7 or the A380? How can you call them competitiors! You say Boeing should only concentrate on one project at a time, as Sandy says, I think they have the resources to concentrate on more than one, and if they cant they wont.

well i know that Boeing have been in business since the 1st world war but they could get carried away.

Not saying anymore on the topic

Good, best not. You obviously don’t have any grasp of the business and its methods.

well i know that Boeing have been in business since the 1st world war but they could get carried away.

Not saying anymore on the topic

thats what i tried to type….its not a competing aircraft but what i am trying to type is Boeing shouldnt worry about to many projects at a time

Boeing know what they are doing. They’ve been in the business since 1912

Funny thing is that many people here believe that Boeing could update the old B747 design to compete with an A380, yet few people believe that Airbus could update the quite modern A330 to match the 7E7.
I have ssen too many Boeing proposals for a modern 747 to believe that they will actually happen before the programm is offically launched.

thats what i tried to type….its not a competing aircraft but what i am trying to type is Boeing shouldnt worry about to many projects at a time

Well Boeing all ready are launching an aircraft to go in competition with the A380 (not directly) so they really should concentrate on that to begin with……….7E7

For crying out loud. The 7E7 is NOT a competitor for the A380, directly or indirectly!

Its a 767/757/A330 replacment… end of story.

Well Boeing all ready are launching an aircraft to go in competition with the A380 (not directly) so they really should concentrate on that to begin with……….7E7

This has also been considered with the 777, but wasn’t continued because of the massive floor strentghening that would be necessairy, increasing gross weight, decreasing payload.
The space between the pax ceiling and upper fuselage is mainly used by airconditioning pipes etc. I wonder where those will go if the space becomes used.

What was considered for the 777 was an overhead crew bunk/rest. This has already been rolled out and several airlines are using it.

This has also been considered with the 777, but wasn’t continued because of the massive floor strentghening that would be necessairy, increasing gross weight, decreasing payload.
The space between the pax ceiling and upper fuselage is mainly used by airconditioning pipes etc. I wonder where those will go if the space becomes used.

This is something that has been through about for many years.

The Space between the cealing of the pax deck and the crown of the 747 is huge.

In total volume I think it is equal to, or just slightly less than the total valume of a 757’s main cabin.

Boeing reveals ‘Sky Suites’ vision for 747 Advanced

Flight International
22 Jun 2004

Unused crown space above main cabin could be converted into business suites and bunks

Boeing is studying radical interior concepts for its proposed 747 Advanced design that would provide space for up to 40 bunks, staterooms, business suites and galley- cart stowage in the currently unused crown space above the main passenger cabin ceiling.

The “Sky Suites” concept would feature on the stretched 747-400 passenger derivative for entry into service from late 2009 if launched in 2006 or early 2007. The concept would allow virtually all the crown space to be used from the rear pressure bulkhead forward to the fairing from the upper deck. Although Boeing has studied an access corridor to connect the upper deck and the suites, it says bulky equipment in the fairing section makes this too difficult.

The company has also revealed a new entry to Door 2 with a sweeping stairway to the upper deck, and a vaulted open space clear to the ceiling of the upper deck with additional windows added to provide a skylight in the crown of the forward fuselage.

Three additional transparencies would also be added to the upper deck belt on the starboard side, with three skylight windows directly overhead creating the impression of a triple decker.

The interior studies are being undertaken to offer additional revenue-creating features without taking up space on the main deck, and stem from double-deck galley studies conducted for the 777. Interior configurations leader Richard Johnson says the changes were made possible by redistributing environmental control system ducting and other systems to the outer edges of the upper crown.

“The main changes were relocating the flight controls from the centreline to the outside,” he says. The changes create a 1.88m (6.1ft) tall stand-up space in the crown, reducing to 1.82m under the frames. Boeing says concepts being explored with the airlines include selling economy-class seats to passengers at premium prices who would spend the flight, other than take-off and landing, in the suites.

Although Boeing acknowledges the fully configured upper lobe features could add an estimated 2,270-3,630kg (5,000-8,000lb) to the empty weight, it believes the attraction of such features as 1.5-2.03m-long bunks and business jet-style suites and meeting rooms would attract additional revenue to make up for this.

Boeing 747/767/777 product development chief Kourosh Hadi says the 747 Advanced’s 68.6m- span wing will feature simpler, double-slotted flaps in place of the current model’s triple-slotted design. Windtunnel tests are planned in 2005 and will be used to evaluate improved lift design changes to leading edges and “other changes”, he adds.

GUY NORRIS / LOS ANGELES